Comment on Vengeance of Blood and Fyre

  1. Anonymous Creator on Chapter 1 Fri 18 Sep 2020 03:43PM UTC

    House Tyrell was still existing, no matter how few and which members it still had. Tarly broke the oath of fealty to his liege (at that moment Olenna) when he secretly sold himself to Lannisters and then helped defeat Tyrell forces (keep in mind, due to his actions numerous Tyrell soldiers, peasants, servants, etc. died).

    I have no love for Tyrells, but what Tarly did was pure Oathbreaking.

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    1. Ripe on Chapter 1 Sat 19 Sep 2020 04:02PM UTC

      In the books yes, but not in the show.

      In the show once Sept was blown up Ollena was the only one with Tyrell name left (it was actually stated as such at several points)... and sice Ollena can't inherit Highgarden from Mace (just like Cersei can't inherit Iron Throne from Tommen) that mean she don't get to order Mace's bannerman around. Ollena Redwyne is nobodys liege lord so Randyll Tarly and all the other Reach lords were free to give their allegience to whomever they choose.

      Last Edited Sat 19 Sep 2020 04:04PM UTC

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      1. Wardown on Chapter 1 Sun 20 Sep 2020 04:23AM UTC

        I think a good vassal is expected to avenge the murder of his liege; he can’t expect mercy if he chooses to fight for the murderer of his liege, sacks his castle, and forces his mother to drink poison.

        Tarly turned on his comrades out of ambition. Dany showed immense generosity, by offering him clemency.

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        1. Ripe on Chapter 1 Sun 20 Sep 2020 01:45PM UTC

          That may be true, but don't forget that officially what happened was an accident caused by a wildfire cache left over from Mad King.

          The fact that very few people believe that story is not important.

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      3. DaSpeedForce on Chapter 1 Sun 20 Dec 2020 02:26AM UTC

        Except Ollenna has more right to Highgarden than Cersei did the Iron Throne. Lady Dustin was a Ryswell, with no children by a dead Lord Dustin. Yet still ruled Barrowton. So Ollenna has the same rights.

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        1. Ripe on Chapter 1 Thu 31 Dec 2020 05:01PM UTC

          No, they have exactly the same right... which is none whatsoever.

          And yes, Barbery Dustin was allowed by Ned to keep rulling Barrowtown but that was because her husband died at Tower of Joy and Ned did not want anyone to think about what actually happened there... which would happen if he took Barrowtown away.

          Technically, Ollena might keep Highgarden with Cersei's approval, but positions of Lord Paramount of the Reach and Warden of the South are different issue. So even as Lady of Highgarden she wouldn't be in possition to order other Reach houses... or more to the point, other Reach houses should not care about her orders.

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          1. DaSpeedForce on Chapter 1 Mon 04 Jan 2021 06:38PM UTC

            Again, Cersei had no right to dictate which kingdom had what. She wasn't even Queen Regent anymore. She didnt take the Baratheon name. She was always "Cersei of House Lannister". Ollenna and Barbrey both took their husbands names.

            So nothing, absolutely, positively, nothing suggests Cersei had legal right to the Throne or legal right to dictate to Lord Paramounts. Period.

            Cersei did what Robert and Aegon did, take the Throne by right of might. House Tyrell swore no fealty to Cersei of House Lannister. She had no real power except in the Crownland and Westerlands because they swore fealty to her.

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            1. Anonymous Creator on Chapter 1 Tue 05 Jan 2021 04:25AM UTC

              Tbf, Cersei didn't really take it by conquest, she simply clung to the power illegally (protected by Mountain) after she should've given it up (and a grand council to be called) and then in a terrorist act murdered anyone that would dare oppose in the future. There was no conquest involved at all, nor did she have any blood-related claim. She was truly a usurper.

              Last Edited Tue 05 Jan 2021 08:56AM UTC

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              1. DaSpeedForce on Chapter 1 Tue 05 Jan 2021 02:51PM UTC

                That means she got it via conquest. No one questioned her usurping the Throne. They simply wanted revenge for her killing the Tyrells and the death of Oberyn. That sounds like Right of Might to me. She even destroyed the opposition; literally.

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                1. Anonymous Creator on Chapter 1 Wed 06 Jan 2021 06:24AM UTC

                  There was no conquest involved, so she didn't get anything with conquest. She simply stayed in Red Keep and no-one actually thought to tell her to leave.

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                  1. DaSpeedForce on Chapter 1 Wed 06 Jan 2021 02:55PM UTC

                    You should be writing the next chapter instead of arguing with me.

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                    1. Anonymous Creator on Chapter 1 Wed 06 Jan 2021 05:04PM UTC

                      Not in any hurry to write it, tbh. Or in the mood. *shrug*

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                      1. DaSpeedForce on Chapter 1 Mon 18 Jan 2021 05:25PM UTC

                        Also conquest: "the subjugation and assumption of control of a place or people by use of military force."

                        It was conquest by definition.

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                        1. Anonymous Creator on Chapter 1 Tue 19 Jan 2021 11:12AM UTC

                          Where did she use military force to get power? At best it was a terrorist hit or a coup. Which are usually then considered illegal governments by the rest of the world until they're in power long enough.

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