Comment on The Apple Tree

  1. joshorli on Chapter 1 Wed 06 Jul 2016 11:59PM UTC

    Nono that means as a joke XD and he is being manipulated and mostly get by the horrible ordeal (pronounced 'adventures') through a great deal of luck, and just being a stubborn child who knows little about his surroundings and don't know when to adjust or endure. Let's just say he's pretty useless earlier on so that his experiences and losses make him stronger... useless as not in a condescending way :)
    Don't get me wrong I love Harry whom is such a sacrificing type and has a huge heart, and Severus whom is a bastard with a capital B XD hope I didn't offend you in anyway.

    Last Edited Thu 07 Jul 2016 12:01AM UTC

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    1. Philo on Chapter 1 Sat 09 Jul 2016 08:34AM UTC

      Hi Joshorli

      Of course you didn't offend me - discussion is good!

      I disagree about Harry and Snape, though! To say that Harry doesn't know how to adjust or endure strikes me as very odd: he takes to life in the magical world like a duck to water, despite it being so very different to the world he has known - a world in which he has had to endure a great deal in his home life, which he has done stoically and yet retaining a sense of self. As for useless - he seems to me to have shown quite a lot of bravery and courage from the start.

      As for Snape - he is certainly presented as a bastard in the early books, and yet we are already given the hint that there is more to him than meets the eye...

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      1. joshorli on Chapter 1 Sun 10 Jul 2016 08:57PM UTC

        hello to you. And pardon my grammar, hopefully nothing get lost in my translation. I do agree your assessment about Harry's early childhood life, he endured a lot, and grew up early in his own way, have some trust issues to authority figures. I get the feeling he's kinda in a habit of enduring under outside pressure, he did adjust to his new environment when he start anew, but switch back to his old habit when his face uncertainty or insecurity like retreat to his shell. Don't know if I'm making myself clear? He's wary of the outside world and prefer endurance than adjusting when facing changes? It's not he doesn't know how to adjust but rather when or if facing uncertainty? Hope I'm making more sense than I thought, I'm feeling the language barrier right now :). But there's one point I disagree or partially - it's no more courage than reckless if you're not capable of assessing risk, save little girl from troll is courageous (and even sacrificing if you know you have more chance to die than stay alive after when you chose to do it), go to forbidden room when told not to is Not. ( it's only pretty when the only casualty is a broken arm, which is not so encouraging to me and I definitely will use it as a bad example when teaching children about risky behavior XD ) And I'm sensing a trust issue to adults/authority figure there when it happen more times by which I mean chose to take matter into your own hands and drag your friends with you facing dangerous situations than rely on adults when you're small children. (He tried his best and he's young and curious and he needs grow up. I'm afraid he truly learn the meaning of collateral damage when Cedrick died. And Sirius died and he try to see more than what is in front of him...till he become a soldier in a war.) I think useless is too cruel a word, but don't take it too seriously, it's more like relatively speaking, compared to his later years, or in a sense he felt useless/powerless when friend and family died. Am I making sense now? I always think growing up is a painful process and when you look back you see a rather hopeless angsty child worrying too much about what happens if the world ends tomorrow XD
        About Severus being a right bastard, don't know about you my friend, I'm very fond of this type of brilliant, sarcastic, morally-challenged(more like they have their own moral standards), completely complicated, bastard-y characters, they're almost always loners with no regard for owns personal life and almost mission driven. Two of my favorite being Doctor House in House.M.D, and Jethro Gibbs (two 'b's, one for bastard) in NCIS, if you know what I mean. Guilt is a powerful thing, I feel like Severus' tragedy is that he has no one to walk him out of it but instead an Albus to run him into the deep end for the greater good.
        Again, hope me making sense. It's a long time since last I write this much english XD

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        1. Philo on Chapter 1 Mon 11 Jul 2016 08:20PM UTC

          I very much appreciate you taking the time and trouble to write so much in a language that isn't your first, joshorli!

          I do hold by my view that Harry is very adaptable, though - just look how he takes to magic and the magical world!

          I can see your argument that he has trust issues with adults - that's no surprise, really, is it, given his upbringing?

          I'm afraid I still can't see him as useless!

          As for Severus - he's certainly a very interesting character - complex.

          But as for Dumbledore - I'm not a fan! His benevolent front masks a horrifying ruthlessness. I think he is one of the scariest characters in the books.

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          1. joshorli on Chapter 1 Tue 12 Jul 2016 05:21AM UTC

            Just Jo is good;) and I'm appreciated for your patient reply. Nothing's better than a good discussion and fic sharing.

            I agree your point Harry is a adaptable, he adapted to magic-related matter as swiftly and smoothly as any small children to new technology in current age, they're naturally curious and eager to learn new things. However it's different when dealing with people. Harry's unhealthy upbringings made him tended to close off and endure unjust treatment from elders/authorities/publics (by which I mean Severus, Albus, Sirius - whom in my opinion is totally not a qualified guardian, and also Harry's ever changing fans who couldn't decide their own mind), than relate his feelings or thoughts on such matter - partially due to trust issue and partially due to insecurity and an unwillingness to walk out of his comfort zone. That's the differences from adaptability, if my grasp of the word is correct, or perhaps I'm just using the wrong terms, again, and totally understandable :p

            And WOW you're determined, about Harry's not-so-uselessness! Ok let me try again if I can make you see reason!XD. Nono why so Sirius (surly this joke is getting old:p) let's just say I'm more of a RPG-person, so no matter how potentially powerful a character is, he is kinda useless before develop to fit the main plot - and in this case, no matter how many times Harry had (accidentally!) killed Volde in his crazy little adventures earlier, he is Not on the main quest. For he knew nothing about the quest info, thus couldn't accepted the quest, and he'd totally been
            Manipulated into (accidentally!) killing 2 bosses to advance the side quest which belonged to Albus. I wouldn't say Harry's useless if he first canre out the way he did in 'the Apple Tree' cause he has power and purpose already. In ' Four LEtter Word' I'd say he's a bit useless in the beginning, it doesn't mean he's a useless person cause he's gotten great skills and immerse power and all, it just he hasn't gotten to the right track of the main plot of the story yet. I tried explain again cause I feel it's more of a misunderstanding than an actual disagreement regarding to 'useless' here, but it could still be an agreement to disagree if it doesn't work out ;)

            And about Albus, whom I'd say a great leader of war and totally crap schoolmaster for his astonishingly disregard to student safety. I wonder why they put a Genenral in the seat of a schoolmaster? It couldn't be healthy to be both at the same time! Its like a hostage situation, a dilemma between army and police, they have different priorities regarding hostage: one to carry order in spite of casualty, one to protect lives above all, there's a reason for it for to be both tend to fuck things up spectacularly. And now Albus is the one making the call to be the army as well as police with students being hostage. When the only way for the army to carry order while preventing casualty is to sacrifice themselves, with Albus Severus and Harry on the frontline, it's not difficult to guess their fate... I wonder whether things will be better if Albus is the Minister instead of headmaster, so then it would be more like he's been making judgement calls instead of making mistakes.

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            1. Philo on Chapter 1 Wed 20 Jul 2016 12:16PM UTC

              Hi Jo
              Sorry to take so long to reply - life has been hectic!

              I think we might have to agree to disagree! I think Harry is astonishingly open to new relationships, despite his upbringing. Think how easily he accepts Hagrid, the whole Weasley family, etc..

              As for Sirius being unqualified to be a guardian - there's no doubt about that - but then, when Harry's parents made him Harry's godfather, it wasn't in the expectation of either Sirius taking on a parenthood role, or indeed, of the poor chap spending half a lifetime in prison....

              And I definitely think we'll have to agree to disagree about Harry being useless! Thank you for explaining where you're coming from, but I'm afraid I don't see the logic of your reasoning and I don't think the textual evidence (either from canon or my stories) backs up your view. Maybe the misunderstanding is more about the meaning of 'useless'?

              I can't agree Albus is a great leader of war! To rely on a child to save you all? To sit back and wait to sacrifice him? When you have able, intelligent and willing adult wizards and witches who you could task to find other means?

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