Comment on Love Goes By Haps: Collected Prompts

  1. stilettodandelion on Chapter 5 Sat 06 Apr 2024 03:03PM UTC

    THOSE BITCHES AIN'T THE SAME THANK YOU AND THANK THE LORD. BLESS. I AM SO GLAD SOMEONE IS SANE.

    HOT TAKE Goneril and Albany's relationship is one of the most underrated relationships in Shakespeare, because they're both so much more interesting than they let on. The thing about how most of contemporary criticism sees them, which frustrates me, is that they always feel the need to pick a side with the couple. I fully support the reading of the abusive dynamic and agree with you wholeheartedly. To me, Goneril is looking to maintain a sense of control by testing her own capacity for violence, and Albany is just the nearest person she can hurt. She sees him as weak because she needs and needs and needs herself to be strong, because she's always been taught that power is self-worth. But Albany cannot understand that, and he withdraws from her because of it. I've seen criticism supporting this. But I've also read so much criticism that, supporting Goneril's scramble for power in a male world, end up trashing Albany for being a symbol of the patriarchy. I've read, like, trans readings of Goneril—which are that interesting to me—that highlight Albany's dismissal of Goneril and his refusal to empathize with her by plainly labelling her 'evil', thus denying her desperate attempts to assert her own power.

    I love Goneril and will defend her. But I love Albany, too. I love him so much and think he needs to be protected. And I'm pissed off because, legit, you'd think the critical field doesn't leave space for someone cares for—and empathizes with—both Albany and Goneril at once. They're just the wrong couple at the wrong time, and they've hurt each other deeply because of it. I find it tragic because—in the beginning, at least—neither of them does so fullyout of malice.

    Regan/Cornwall is probably one of my favorite Shakespeare canon pairings, because these two fucking adore each other. Cornwall worshipsthe ground Regan walks on, and Regan has found someone who sees her ruthlessness in whole and loves every inch of it—she's, like, hit the jackpot. They're the exact same shades of cruel. How fulfilling their relationship manage to be is extraordinary, considering Regan's circumstances of birth. Goneril doesn't have that recognition and mutual understanding with Albany, the knowledge of which, I'm sure, gives Regan a sense of superiority.

    It makes their conflict over Edmund much more interesting: Goneril feels entitled to someone who meets her cunning and her strength head-on rather than cowering from it; she believes she deserves it more because Regan has already known that acceptance, but she hasn't. It's just as much about wanting acceptance as it is about lust. Everyone in King Learjust want to be loved okay? Because what if our families, who are supposed to love us unconditionally, don't? What if they fail us, spite us, abandon us, break our hearts? How can we possibly go on living, then? And at the end of the day, how much love is enough?

    SO YES. The sisters are so different. They have faced completely different circumstances in love and life. And their relationship is all the more complex because of the envies and jealousies embedded into love. They are the only ones in the world who can truly understand each other, having both personally suffered Lear's upbringing. It hurts me, always, to think that they ended up so divided from each other—but perhaps that understanding is also why. They see themselves reflected in the other's mirror, which makes both their own bitterness and their different experiences all the more difficult to bear.

    I love both Goneril and Regan to death AHHHHHHHHH. Okay I'm sorry but when I start screaming about King Lear I can't stop.

    YEAH BUT ALSO DOMESTIC ABUSE. PROTECT ALBANY. I LOVE HIM.

    EDIT: holy fuck this comment is so long I am so sorry.

    Last Edited Sat 06 Apr 2024 03:03PM UTC

    Comment Actions

    1. Masked_Man_2 on Chapter 5 Sun 07 Apr 2024 03:55AM UTC

      THAT IS A SMOKING HOT TAKE friend I love it so much. Ironically one of the things I found super frustrating when doing the Lear project years ago was the lack of any meaningful critical analyses of Albany's character at all. I had to be like well shit I might as well write it because almost no one else has. Yet he's one of the last few standing--depending on which version of the script you pull from, THE final voice of the play--and this man deserves so much better than he got it makes me so mad.

      To me, Goneril is looking to maintain a sense of control by testing her own capacity for violence, and Albany is just the nearest person she can hurt. She sees him as weak because she needs and needs and needs herself to be strong, because she's always been taught that power is self-worth. But Albany cannot understand that, and he withdraws from her because of it. THIS IS IT. THIS is peak Goneril. She's the heir, yet she's also a daughter, and it's that dissonance between knowing her place in society to be lesser because of her gender while also feeling entitled to the honours and accoutrements of a prince, which was likely how she'd been raised. Motherless, she probably had no strong women in her life at all, and I think there's a TON of internalised misogyny and self-hatred in her. So when her husband is someone like Albany--'milk-liver'd,' for a large part of the play very passive, both wary and weary of confrontation--someone who fills the traditional feminine gender role far better than she does (like the whole 'I would give the distaff into my husband's hands' bit, she 100% 'wears the pants' in their relationship), it's just so EASY for her to lash out. It's like seeing the worst parts of herself, the parts she's spent a lifetime trying to subjugate and crush beneath an iron will, reflected in a mirror, only the face in that mirror is a man's. Perhaps the man she should have been. And that disgusts her.

      Also, having recently read and seen Game of Thrones, I'm realising now that Albany has massive Ned Stark vibes. Second son forced to inherit a position of power he'd never been prepared for and never saw himself ever filling, bound by duty and honour and personal morals to do the best damn job he can but floundering so far out of his depth at times when all those around him speak a foreign language of subterfuge he never learned to master. And he's so tired. He's so sick of these games and power plays and deceptions, of everyone wanting a piece of what should not and cannot be given lightly. I think the second he starts suspecting Edmund and Goneril's involvement, or witnessing her (in many ways justified) mistreatment of her father, it's in a twisted way a huge relief: finally, some tangible desire, some clear-cut wrongdoing. Something that can be confronted with at least a vague notion of the outcome. Granted, he doesn't go about it the right way at all, and says some awful things to her (as hilariously badass as such lines as 'you are not worth the dust which the rude wind blows in your face' are). But after a lifetime spent enduring, turning the other cheek only to get it struck too, of keeping mum and cursing himself a weakling, a coward, for not speaking up, all that bottled-up emotion had to go SOMEWHERE. They are just--SO eminently ill-suited for each other. And Regan and Cornwall are FULLY THE OPPOSITE. The one thing Regan has that Goneril doesn't is the thing she yearns for most: genuine connection, and compatibility in love. And the fact that Regan absolutely is the type to lord that over her after a lifetime spent scrabbling for attention, the perennial middle child, would just make it hurt Goneril more. Not that she'd ever show that hurt: that would be weakness. She can only grab the blade, ignore the way her fingers bleed, and turn the weapon back on the one who wielded it, because if everyone hurts as much as she does, she's no longer at a disadvantage.

      I also apologise for the length of that but Jesus lord they do all just want to be loved and SEEN and knowing that they won't be is just. Heart-wrenching. Fuck.

      Comment Actions

      1. stilettodandelion on Chapter 5 Sun 21 Apr 2024 09:13AM UTC

        I want you to know that in the two weeks I took to get back to you, I've thought about this Goneril/Albany conversation about a total 34 times. That's genuinely how much fun I'm having.

        It's like seeing the worst parts of herself, the parts she's spent a lifetime trying to subjugate and crush beneath an iron will, reflected in a mirror, only the face in that mirror is a man's. Perhaps the man she should have been. And that disgusts her. HOLY FUCK THIS IS IT THIS ISSSSS IT. The self-hatred and internalized misogyny literally gets Goneril to cast herself in the role of the 'villain', because all that loathing needs to go somewhere, and she'd rather be seen to herself as villainous because she is trying so hard to prove her strength and her durability. And of course Goneril just wants others to hurt the same way she does because that's the only way she can sustain her pride intact. YES YES YES YES.

        AND YES. Albany behaves with such a savage energy when they finally confront each other he can allow himself to lash out in return and it's relief, because finally he can justify this angry helplessness that he feels, finally he can actually be angry with her for some 'legitimate wrongdoing'. Because finally he can allow himself, and their marriage, to break. Finally he feels justified enough to hurt her back. AHHHHHH ITS SO SO REAL. THEY ARE SUCH A MESS. I LOVE THEM AQKQLFFKFLLDLSKSL.

        I still need to read Game of Thrones because my family and friends are all obsessed with it, and they've made it clear they won't leave me alone until I do. :))))) But I am sure I will love it and I can't see to see the parallels too, heheheheh.

        Albany is fucking under-appreciated by everyone around him and by the critics, too. TRAGEDY.

        Comment Actions

        1. Masked_Man_2 on Chapter 5 Sun 21 Apr 2024 02:33PM UTC

          Same. I have so missed getting into massive nerd rants with people. It's the good soup. <3

          YES! And honestly Goneril would probably deride the whole concept of a "hero" anyway: she has no time or respect for chivalry, nobility, honour, or any knightly virtue, any facsimile of sainthood on wretched earth. Villains, at least, are pragmatic. They get shit done. They make names for themselves. THAT, she can respect. And that, she will strive to emulate.

          That scene of Albany's in particular gets me fired the fuck up in both versions of the text. ESPECIALLY in the Quarto, because it's such a marked change from how he appeared earlier, and it's really this fantastically charged moment of the man absolutely popping the fuck off. He is LIVID. He's angry and sarcastic and derisive and so, so cold, and honestly? Go off king. He deserves it.

          I will confess I haven't finished the first book, but the half or so I did read was quite good. XD

          Comment Actions

          1. stilettodandelion on Chapter 5 Mon 20 May 2024 07:25PM UTC

            GO OFF KING. This house protects Albany at all costs.

            VILLAINS ARE PRAGMATIC AND THEY GET SHIT DONE. They're tough, they're tenacious, they're vulnerable, they're fighters, and the villainy you teach them THEY WILL EXECUTE. (Go read Merchant of Venice BWAHAHAHAHAH *cackles*).

            Comment Actions

            1. Masked_Man_2 on Chapter 5 Mon 20 May 2024 10:42PM UTC

              THIS. HOUSE. PROTECTS. ALBANY. AT ALL COSTS.

              EXACTLY. They're really the instigators of action when you think about it. XD

              Comment Actions

        3. Masked_Man_2 on Chapter 5 Sat 27 Apr 2024 01:43AM UTC

          SOCIAL SHAKESPEARE IS DOING LEAR FOR THE MAY READINGS.

          I AM SO EXCITED.

          Signup link because even if you don’t want to read lurkers are welcome: https://forms.gle/RZw4YRQddfXxXun3A

          UPDATE I’M IN ONE OF THEM AND GOT CAST AS EDGAR I’M FREAKING TF OUT.

          Last Edited Mon 06 May 2024 06:24AM UTC

          Comment Actions

          1. stilettodandelion on Chapter 5 Tue 14 May 2024 05:31PM UTC

            YOOOO DUDE YOU ARE SO COOL. YOU ARE SO COOL WAHHHHHHH.

            I'm so so so happy that you get to play Edgar and just reading your message is making me so HAPPY right now. Okay Imma celebrate this by sending you something—some recent work I've done on Lear. WAIT FOR IT. <33333333

            Comment Actions

            1. Masked_Man_2 on Chapter 5 Tue 14 May 2024 05:33PM UTC

              I had entirely too much fun playing Edgar. It was so good. AND YES PLEASE SEND ME THE LEAR WORK I AM SO INTRIGUED

              Comment Actions