Archive of Our Own ^beta

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I don’t have links to the posts, but I have been posting every canon thing I can find about Killer over on my YouTube channel and my Tiktok account.
—-

This comic was found by someone on the Wayback Machine. Thanks to ShibuyaNeko.

Here’s the link:
http://rahafwabas.tumblr.com/post/162069588480/and-now-something-new-happened-killersans

Go to Dec 13, 2018 capture.

——

Here’s a link to a playlist about canon Killer!Sans:

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEpiTdjJeJ7GM0W4WvAH6CVb2T5ypW2Zn

And here’s a link to my Collections on my Tiktok account:

Canon Killer!Sans Facts:

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRpVXLrs/

Something New:

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRpVTtAT/

Killer!Sans vs Swap!Sans comic:

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRpVECmv/

Other Killer!Sans Comics:

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRpVscSA/

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Canon Fun Fact #1:

The liquid coming out of Killer’s eyes isn’t hate or negativity. It is the result of too much Determination; which is not good for Monsters. And although Killer’s soul makes him neither human or monster, his body is still that of a skeleton monster.

Hate has nothing to do with Killer’s canon story.

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DISCLAIMER: when describing his soul’s stages to Color, Killer states that he has 3 Stages & we find out a bit later that there’s 4. However, when we look at a panel Rahafwbas made showing the differences between Murder & Killer Sans, we see Killer has 5 stages.

Their soul is the result of Sans’ Monster soul fusing with a human Determination soul.

It works in 4 (kinda 5) stages, but Killer only seems to experience 4, and each stage seems to have some dissociation and memory loss involved in some way.

Stage 0: a normal monster soul. We haven’t seen Killer in this stage, and it’s unclear if—once he does—his soul will permanently stay that way. It also seems like Nightmare prevents Killer’s soul from ever going into this stage, because then he’d just be Classic Sans & Nightmare has no use for Sans.

Stage 1: An upside down red & white heart. Still Killer, just a different version. A more emotional, easily swayed, very vulnerable and hurt version of Killer. Prone to severe dissociation & hallucinations. He’s close to being Sans, but he still isn’t exactly Sans. Not a threat to anyone.

Stage 2: the target. Their soul is a target because it’s a sign that Sans’ monster soul is fighting back, but the Determination soul is too strong. Stage 2 hardly ever has any eyelights, and when he does the eyelight only shows up in his right eye socket. According to Rahafwabas, the eyelight in the right eye socket is a sign of “the Sans we know,” implying stage 2 is still Sans. Just a different version of Sans. It’s basically a messy fight between 2 souls.

Stage 2 is the stage Killer’s soul spends the most time in. Stage 2 Killer is highly, HIGHLY avoidant of anything that may dredge up scary & confusing emotions and memories it can’t understand. AUs of Papyrus, Chara or Frisk. AUs of others Sanses. Even certain foods, such as chocolate or ketchup.

Stage 2 Killer can still experience emotion (in which case, an eyelight will appear in their right eyesocket; implying the emotions are really coming from “the Sans we know” but Stage 2 doesn’t really understand that) but they’re fleeting, and Killer doesn’t really understand most of them. Most of Stage 2’s emotions come from responses to outside sources, such as AUs of ppl they used to know (Chara/Frisk/Papyrus) or when around their cats. And again, stage 2 is highly avoidant of such things.

There is a severe disconnect between stage 1 & stage 2 Killer, and it becomes very obvious whenever NM starts forcibly changing Killer’s soul. Ex. Stage 2 not being able to recognize Color, or understand why it likes Color after NM forcibly changes its soul from stage 1 to 2.

Killer does seem to have some control over his soul, able to switch from stage 1 to 2 as he pleases. However, switching from stage 2 to stage 1 seems to be something that has to be triggered or happen naturally. And, no. Stage 2 Killer isn’t evil or anything. Just..bloodthirsty. And misguided.

Stage 3:
It’s referred to as “the crazy state.” What happens when the war between the two souls reaches it’s peak, and Killer loses control of the body; attacking anything in sight. He almost seems like a cornered, abused, feral animal. I don’t think we actually know what it looks like. Maybe just like the target stage, but spinning rapidly & turning into what looks like a jumbled mess?

Stage 4:

During the comic where we’re introduced to stage 4, we don’t get to actually see what it looks like within the comic itself. Going off the comic where Rahafwbas shows the differences between Killer & Murder, it seems like it might look like a completely red, upside down heart. Filled with Determination.

Once again, there’s a disconnect between stage 2 & 4 but this time it’s a complete amnesia blackout.

We don’t know much about this state, other that a) Killer loses complete control b) soul immediately reverts back to stage 2 c) all memory is lost d) it’s happening more often e) stage 1 Killer is attempting to keep stage 4 a secret from people such as Color and it takes awhile for stage 2 Killer to mentally settle down after that. They are quite unstable after going through stage 4; and you’ll often see things like Killer talking in different color text (red/white/black), interrupting himself out loud, having back and forth conversations with himself, and often contradicting himself.

All we know about stage 4 is “Chara wins” and Killer will feel absolutely nothing. And by “Chara Wins,” it means that Killer will finally, completely, become like Chara; feeling absolutely nothing, controlled entirely by Determination.

If that’s true though, then that means Determination has managed to take over at least twice; & each time was never able to maintain control for long. Just got the job done & immediately left.

So I’m assuming it’s completely possible for stage 0 to happen, but Sans isn’t likely to maintain control for long either.

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So, what’s Killer!Sans’ relationship with Chara? Are they friends?
To directly quote Killer’s creator, Rahafwabas, “In some timelines, they are and in others they aren’t. But, they aren’t friends really. No matter what, they’re ready to get rid of eachother.”

So, their relationship is very similar to one the Player has with Flowey in the Genocide Route. Kinda. After all, creatures like them could never really be friends.

In the Swap Sans vs Killer!Sans comics, as soon as Killer spots Swap!Chara, Killer at first reacts with surprise and fear; mistaking Swap!Chara for his Chara. When the fight between Killer, Swap!Chara, and Swap!Papyrus begins, Killer threatens US!Chara and asks if he can use their arm to study bcs he’s never “studied a human before.”

Is Chara still alive?
This is a bit trickier to answer, as Something New has multiple timelines, but in the timelines where Killer!Sans leaves their AT and joins Nightmare; Chara almost always seems to already be dead.
——-

(Side fact: when killing Chara, Killer does it while its soul is in stage 2; but while that little white eyelight is in his eye socket. Implying it was Sans that wanted to kill Chara, but Killer who finished the job. And he only kills Chara once his Determination becomes stronger than Chara’s and he can take control of the Resets. As soon as Killer!Sans didn’t need Chara anymore, he got rid of them.)

Not only that, there’s also a timeline where EVERYONE from K!Sans’ timeline is dead. They only ever appear has shadow figures whenever Sans starts coming to the surface, or when they’re voices appear in Killer’s head; sometimes being nice, sometimes being mean.

Stage 2 Killer doesn’t seem to have hallucinations unless Sans is starting to ‘wake up,’ in which case they’ll appear to him as faceless shadows; implying stage 2 Killer doesn’t really remember his friends or family very well. Other than that, stage 2 always has this sense/paranoia that Chara is “always watching.”

Meanwhile, stage 1 Killer has full blown hallucinations. Able to see and talk to “Chara” clearly, have full blown conversations with it. It honestly seems, though, that this hallucination is just supposed to be a stand in for the Player. Okay. So what about Frisk? Dead and gone. At some point, Frisk disappeared and just never came back. They live just as a faceless shadow in Killer’s head. When asked if he misses his Frisk,’ Killer responded that he “misses stabbing their face.” ———

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LV:

Rahafwabas has said that they’ll leave Killer’s LV level up for interpretation. We know from the Killer!Sans vs Swap!Sans comic that his LV can go as high as 999999+

HP:

According to Rahafwabas, just like Classic Sans, Killer only has 1 HP.

If that’s so, how can Killer take on people such as Ink?

Three reasons:

1. Just like Classic Sans, Killer fights smart, fast, and dirty.

2. Killer!Sans a limited emotional range, an absurdly high pain tolerance, lots of Determination, and extreme dissociative tendencies. Physical pain is something he’s learned to block out, and his Determination would never allow him to give up without a fight.

3. Although Killer never physically aged and is still physically the age that Classic is, he simply isn’t mentally or emotionally that same age. The Resetting in his AT went on for years, and he remembered it all. (Mostly, considering the fact Sans just started dissociating & mentally/emotionally shutting down at some point, I’m pretty sure some of those memories before the Deal with Chara are foggy now. If not completely forgotten.)

Killer!Sans has basically lived years without ever physically aging, and he’s spent those years fighting against the Human. With every Reset, the Player learned Sans’ moves; but with every Reset, Killer was learning the Player’s too. As a result, the fighting lasted for longer and longer until Sans inevitably lost, once again said “no” to Chara’s Deal, and then the Reset happens again.

Rinse and repeat.

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Killer!Sans is implied to have some type of dissociative disorder, it seems.

Rahafwabas has never directly stated Killer has Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) or Otherwise Specified Dissociative Disorder 1 (OSDD1). They have also not even said anything like Multiple Personality Disorder. Nor anything like OSDD-2; which is identity disturbance due to thought reform, brainwashing, captivity, prolonged intense coercion, etc. —-

But what she has said is this;
Killer!Sans has a ‘separated’ personality, represented by each stage of his soul.

Killer!Sans has “two personalities”—and they speak in his head all the time—to eachother and him. They even give him advice on what to do and say.

Killer!Sans has had moments where he had back and forth conversations with himself as if he’s two different people, both outloud and inside their own head. This is not something he can control, and they don’t talk out loud to eachother the same way Murder!Sans talks out loud to his hallucination of Papyrus.

Murder!Sans talks TO Papyrus, who isn’t actually real and only ever talks to him out loud. Murder & “Papyrus” only ever have one sided conversations, no one but Murder can hear what Papyrus says.

Meanwhile, Killer!Sans can speak amongst themselves in their head. Whenever they speak out loud to eachother, they’re speaking to EACHOTHER. Full blown conversations that an outsider could keep full track of if they listened in.
—

For example:
-My entire analysis about Killer!Sans’ soul stages and how it effects their memories, personality, and behaviors. —
—
When asked if he was okay after going though Stage 4, Killer!Sans says this outloud:

“I am fine—“(in red text)
“I don’t know—“ (in black text)
“I am okay.”(in red text again)
—-
He did this even before his soul was changed. This is a conversation that happened in his mind, after killing Papyrus for the 1st time;

“What we did back there was wrong.”
“I know, but we don’t have a choice.”
“..”
“...”
“...Am I going crazy?”
“...haha. Yeah.”

(And yet, when asked if Killer!Sans was ‘insane’, Rahafwabas responded with “only if you make him mad.”)
—-
When he was first going to kill Papyrus, he had an entire speech both before and after that involved talking to himself, have full blown conversations out loud with himself, cutting himself off at points and even apologizing to Papyrus at one point. Before being cut off again with ‘Killer’ asserting that he isn’t sorry because Papyrus hurt them.

This changed once “Sans” managed to come back to the surface. While he was busy sobbing, apologizing, and begging Papyrus to come back; he was also interrupting himself again. Saying things along the lines of ‘we didn’t tell him, he didn’t know’ ‘no, stay stable.’

—-
While answering an ask from a Player (??) about the X-Event, Killer!Sans only saw the ask as marked out question marks.

We then see Killer’s thoughts as two different thought bubbles, once again with red & black text saying:

Red: I wonder if Error’s doing that?
Black: Yeah, it’s Error.
—-
Whenever Nightmare forcibly switches his soul from stage 1 to stage 2, stage 2 Killer doesn’t remember what happened before then, doesn’t recognize Color despite knowing who he was before being forcibly switched, and doesn’t understand why he likes Color.
—-
In the Good Ending, when Abysstale Sans asks Killer if Nightmare is still bothering him, stage 2 Killer just responds (in red text):

“Eh. I kinda miss that dude.”

And when Abyss questions how Killer could miss someone who used him, stage 2 Killer has no answer for it. And we have no idea how he views Nightmare while in his “feeling” stage.

These views seem to persist even the Good Ending, when they’re 1. safe away from Nightmare, 2. now have control over their soul, and 3. their soul still is capable of switching into stage 2; implying that Killer!Sans is capable of safely leaving Nightmare without having to first “fix” their soul.
—-
Whenever an eyelight appears in Stage 2 Killer’s eye socket, Rahafwabas said it’s a sign of “the Sans we know.”
—-
In almost every drawing of Killer!Sans that Rahafwabas makes, covering one side of his face will reveal a different expression then when covering the other side of his face.

On top of that, when Killer!Sans’ soul was wavering slowly switching from stage 2 to stage 1, they were only cable of crying from one eye socket. The right eye socket, where the eyelight comes from. The left side of Killer’s face was more confused & worried, but the left eye socket was completely dry except for the liquid Determination coming out.

This only changes when Killer’s soul fully snaps into stage 2. Both his eyelights are back, and he’s crying from both eyes now. Up until Nightmare forcibly switches his soul back, and now he’s back to crying from only his right eye socket.
——

When explaining to Alphys why he’s working with the human, Sans says he’s doing it because he wants to feel something again. And yet, when Alphys starts appealing to his emotions & Sans actually starts FEELING emotion, Sans starts hearing a deep, frantic voice (in red text) telling him to not care.

Saying things like “NO! No! Don’t care, don’t care, don’t care! No, no, no—“

It seems to imply that there were two different reasons why Killer!Sans worked with the Human. Sans desperately wanted to feel something again, meanwhile Killer knew it didn’t matter what they did in the end; the Player wanted them to do this, so therefore they don’t really have a choice.
——

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Killer!Sans doesn’t like a lot of things (at one point, he even said he “dislikes everything”), but there’s a few things he does.
——
Let’s start with a few dislikes:

Killer doesn’t like stars. He doesn’t HATE them, they just make him feel very uneasy and unsafe because they remind him of the Resets. (Implying that, at some point, Killer!Sans gained the ability to see save points/stars. Something not even Murder!Sans can canonically do.)

He doesn’t eat as much as Classic Sans does. When asked about his favorite foods, he even went as far as saying he just doesn’t eat. He avoids ketchup like the plague, and he avoids chocolate too. Anything and everything that might bring up bad memories or emotions.

However, if you were to force Killer to choose between ketchup or chocolate, Killer!Sans would show a preference for hot melting chocolate. It isn’t his favorite, but at least it isn’t ketchup.

He avoids anything to do with Papyrus or AUs of Papyrus. If he can’t avoid an AU of Papyrus, he will still deal with that Papyrus as Nightmare has ordered him to; and he’ll still be smiling as he does it. But they won’t enjoy it, and it’ll be obvious that they don’t. There even seems to be a few instances where Killer!Sans literally just runs and hides from a Papyrus.

According to Rahafwabas, Papyrus is the hardest enemy Killer!Sans will ever face.

Also, puns. I wouldn’t say he hates puns, but just like with stars, they make him uneasy/uncomfortable. He still makes a few puns every now and again, but they’re rare and come out very forced.
—-
Likes:
He likes knives and katanas.
He likes cats, and maybe bunnies.
He likes teasing Nightmare!Sans.
He likes Color!Sans. (Even if he doesn’t really know why.)
He seems to like warm things.
He seems to like coffee.
He doesn’t like chocolate, but he prefers it over ketchup.
Toriel. Apparently, back before everything happened, this version of Classic Sans had a bit of a crush on Toriel. It didn’t seem like it was anything serious or that it ever actually went anywhere, and Sans seems to have just accepted that he’ll never see his Toriel again, but it was something.
—-
Hobbies:

Other than messing around with Nightmare, following NM’s orders, or going on missions: what does Killer!Sans do in his free time?

According to Killer, he takes Monster dust and human blood form other AUs & puts them in jars so he can study them.

He also bargains for other people’s souls. The only reason he’s given for this is that every soul has its own unique code, and he’d like to study it. However, he cut himself off after saying that; implying that, for whatever reason, he’s trying to keep that a secret.

There’s a comic scene where, after experiencing Stage 4, Killer reports to Nightmare about the mission he was on. He had a soul in his hand when he was giving his mission report to his Boss, but told NM not to worry about it. Seems like Killer’s trying to keep it a secret from both Nightmare and the Player.

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Before we begin, here’s some things you’ll need to know;

1. co·er·cion
/kōˈərSH(ə)n,kōˈərZH(ə)n/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: coercion; plural noun: coercions
the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.

——

2. Lifton Mind control (also known as "brainwashing," "coercive persuasion," and "thought reform") refers to a process in which a group or individual systematically uses unethically manipulative methods to persuade others to conform to the wishes of the manipulator(s).
——
I am putting these here so you’ll understand what I mean when I say Killer!Sans was a victim of intentional, planned, deliberate, prolonged torture.

It went on for years, and understandably, Killer!Sans is, of course, severely traumatized and mentally unstable. But he is not insane; the whole point of his character is that he never wanted this.

His choices don’t matter, what he wants doesn’t matter.

———

A common misconception seems to be that Killer stopped feeling as soon as his soul was merged w/ the Determination soul and shifted into the target shape.

The truth is that Sans stopped feeling a long time ago. Chara says it themself: “You were in so much pain that, in order to protect yourself, you shut down.”

It was the only way to keep going. Caring about his friends and family was *hurting* Sans. Because they will die, over and over and over, in various different ways; and Sans can’t do anything to stop it.

His pain about their deaths and his own deaths don’t matter. No one else remembers dying, not as clearly as he does. As he said before he killed Papyrus for the 1st time,

“I was so jealous of you. Why do I remember, and you don’t?! Why am I the one being hurt—for YOU—and you don’t remember?”

My point is; “Sans” was not anywhere near the right state of mind to be agreeing to anything.

Now, why did he do it? Alphys asked him this exact question, and his response was this:

“I want to feel something again.”

And yet, as soon as Alphys started pleading with Sans and Sans actually started feeling something again, Sans immediately hears this voice in his head—frantically telling to not care. (In red text, btw.)

Starting from the moment “Sans” laid his eyelights on Papyrus, it becomes evident there are multiple reasons why Sans is doing what he’s doing; even if Sans doesn’t completely understand.

Right after “Sans” goes on a rant about the pain Papyrus has “caused” him, he immediately interrupts himself with: “I’m sorry, Papyrus. But it seems like “I” don’t need you anymore.” (The same thing stage 2 Killer said to Chara before he killed them.)

Only to once again interrupt himself with “No. I’m not sorry.”

And it isn’t until Papyrus is dead and “Sans” fully realizes what just happened & falls into a mental breakdown, he’s once again interrupting “himself” as if he’s different people.

“He didn’t know, we didn’t tell him.” “No, no. Stay stable.” Interrupting “his” own mental breakdown to reassure “himself?”

And then after killing Papyrus, there’s this conversation that takes place in Sans’ head.
“What we do is wrong.”
“I know, but we don’t have any choice.”
“...have I gone crazy?”
“..haha. Yeah.”

(Except, canonically, Killer!Sans is not “insane.” He only is when you make mad.)

Some ‘part’ of “Sans” already knows there isn’t any point in trying to say “no” to Chara’s deal anymore. The Human won’t take no for answer, they’re too Determined.

On top of all that, due to Sans’ coding, he was completely incapable of ever saying “yes” to Chara’s Deal. It just isn’t who Sans is.

So, the Player gives “him” the ability to say “yes.” And it’s because of this that Rahafwabas says: “Killer!Sans is here because of you.”

“Sans” wanted to feel something again. “Killer” knew there wasn’t a point in resisting anymore.

——-

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Color!Sans, a Sans from an AU called Othertale, is Killer!Sans’ canon best friend.

Color is trying to help Killer leave Nightmare safely, and in the Good Ending, he actually manages to.

He’s also trying to help Killer fix his soul, but even in Good Ending, Killer’s soul is able to shift into its other stages; suggesting that Killer somehow finds a way to leave NM even without fixing his soul.

(I think maybe he found a way to place his soul back in his body and take it out, so this way no one can see it or touch it unless he wants them to. But that’s just a theory/headcanon.)

Color’s relationship with Stage 1 Killer seems openly friendly and affectionate. #1 seems to trust Color with almost everything.

However, #1 is trying to keep Stage 4 and their past with Chara/the Player a secret from Color. #1 Killer also warns Color not to trust him when he’s in stage 2.

However, stage 2 Killer doesn’t seem to remember Color and Color doesn’t know much about him (which is why #1 has to explain the stages of his soul to Color.) #2 seems to like Color— who he refers to simply as “that guy”—but he doesn’t know why he likes Color.

Color absolutely refuses to kill Killer!Sans—even when #1 Killer tells him to, should he ever try to attack him—and Color absolutely refuses to fight #2 Killer.

He says it’s because the negativity would only make Nightmare stronger, but I think it’s because he just doesn’t want to hurt his friend(s).

Despite #1 Killer’s warnings not to trust #2 Killer, there hasn’t been any indication that #2 would attack or try to kill Color on sight. However, if Nightmare told him to, #2 Killer probably would try.

(He probably wouldn’t get far, as trying to harm their friend would probably just trigger their soul into stage 1.)

The only other interaction Rahafwabas has given us between Color and #2 is when Abyss keeps trying to annoy #2 by repeatedly poking him. Out of annoyance, #2 attempts to stab Abyss and Color stops him just in time.

So, yeah. I’d say #2 Killer isn’t any active threat to Color’s life, no matter what #1 may say. Color is able to handle himself, and so long as Nightmare isn’t around, #2 isn’t really going out of his way to kill or harm anyone (and if he does try, Color is able to stop him; as shown by the interaction with Abyss.) #2 just wants people to leave him alone, it seems.

Other than that, when asked how Color & Killer met & why Color is even friends with a killer, Rahafwabas just said they’re leaving how they met up to interpretation.

When asked if Rahafwabas sees Color & Killer’s relationship as romantic, they just said that they see their relationship as more BROmantic then ROmantic. However, it is fine to ship them romantically if you want.

Both Killer & Color’s creators have shown support for the ship.

(Although, I personally see it as a QPR/Queer Platonic Relationship. Not quite romantic, but not just platonic either.)

When someone expressed pity for Nightmare, Color said something like this:

“Nightmare has hurt lots of innocent AUs and people. He hurt my friends. And he hurt Killer the most. He doesn’t deserve sympathy.”

So, yeah. Color understandably has a negative opinion of Nightmare and greatly dislikes him.

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So, Killer!Sans was given two cats one day because someone asked to see his reaction to cats.

Rahafwabas drew stage 2 Killer sitting on the floor, one leg crossed over his lap. Near his feet, one cat slept. The other sat in his lap, and he was gently petting them.

“You two don’t have a home either, huh?” Was his reaction.

Some time later, another prompt comes in.

“Nightmare’s angry with his team again.”

The comic starts with Nightmare walking up on #1 Killer, who is once again sitting with his cats.

At some point in the comic, after Killer and Nightmare have a bit of a back and forth conversation, it ends with Nightmare casually beating one of Killer’s cats to pulp before walking away.

#1 Killer didn’t react at all until it was over. Maybe he was in shock, maybe he knew he couldn’t do anything to stop Nightmare, or maybe he was dissociating and having a hard time believing that what he was seeing was real.

Whatever the reason, his soul shifts back into stage 2 and he scoops up his cats before shortcutting away to somewhere we don’t get to see. And he doesn’t respond to Nightmare’s order for Killer to follow him.

Nightmare seems genuinely confused when he turns around and realizes that Killer has left. It seems that Nightmare wasn’t even aware of the effect his actions had.

The next time we see Killer’s cats, is in a comic called “A Good Person?” where Dream senses some positivity coming from Killer and immediately goes to talk to him.

The thing causing Killer’s positivity is his cats. And there’s two of them again.

It’s unclear what happened to the cat that Nightmare beat. If maybe Killer managed to get the cat somewhere safe to heal, or if that cat died and the one in this comic is a new stray cat that wondered up to Killer.

(Considering the comic where the cat is harmed is given a trigger warning of animal death, and I think it’s possible that Nightmare killed that cat. And eventually, another stray found its way to Killer!Sans’ care.)

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In timelines where Killer kills Chara, and accepts Nightmare offer to leave his AT and join him, what happens?

The Reset power goes back to the most Determined: and I’m assuming it’s Flowey since Chara, Frisk, and Killer are no longer around.

According to Rahafwabas, in this AT, everything about it is just like Undertale; except for one thing.

Sans is missing.

In this timeline, Papyrus is still desperately searching for his “missing” brother. He remembers Killer as he was—Classic Sans—and doesn’t remember any of his deaths at Killer & Chara’s hands.

(Poor Papyrus...he’s never gonna find his brother unless he somehow is able to escape his timeline and gain Multiversal traveling abilities.)

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Why does Killer!Sans kill?

Another common misconception about Killer in the fandom is the idea that he kills for fun and pleasure or that he’s a mindless killing machine.

That isn’t the case. Stage 2 Killer (the target shape) is somewhat a machine, but not a killing machine. And he’s certainly not a mindless machine—seeing as he’s willing to question Nightmare’s plans if he thinks they won’t work—but he is an obedient one.

Stage 2 can’t feel much of anything, and what little he can feel, is fleeting and something he both can’t fully understand and isn’t fully aware of.

He can’t feel any real joy, and doesn’t get any sadistic pleasure out of killing people. He just doesn’t feel anything about it, full stop, he’s completely numb and desensitized to the violence. (Which is exactly how the Player intended him to be. How they carefully crafted him to be.)

He kills because the Player wants him to, and because Nightmare wants him to spread negativity.

However, Killer isn’t actually just going around killing everyone on his missions for Nightmare. Canon Nightmare doesn’t kill; because dead people don’t have negativity, so Killer avoids killing people unless ordered otherwise. As directly stated by Killer himself in the Stage 4 comic.

(Or, unless his soul slips into stage 4. In which case he loses complete control of themself, their body, their soul, and for a moment; they even seem to lose connection to reality. Once stage 4 deals with whatever or whoever seems to be a threat, the soul immediately snaps back into stage 2.

Stage 2 doesn’t actually remember whatever happens in stage 4, but because the result is usually messy, he knows when it happens.)

Whenever he isn’t on a mission for NM, following NM’s orders, or putting on a little show/act for the Player or other people; Stage 2 Killer isn’t actually violent or murderous. He’s mostly just vibing with his cats, taking a nap, teasing/playfully flirting with Nightmare, or just enjoying a cup of coffee.

He genuinely doesn’t seem to care about the balance of positivity and negativity, nor Nightmare and Dream’s little war.

He’s only loyal to Nightmare because Nightmare found him first, gave him a purpose and a place to be; there isn’t anything special about Nightmare except for that. If Dream had been the one to find and rescue him, he’d still be as loyal to Dream as he currently is to Nightmare.

(The only difference is that Dream wouldn’t get physically or verbally abusive towards Killer, nor would he toy around with his soul & force Killer!Sans to stay and work for him the way Nightmare does/can do.)

However, one thing Stage 2 Killer does seem to enjoy is the fighting and the pain. Stage 2 shows some sadomasochist tendencies; aka he finds joy in inflicting physical pain on others just as much as he finds them inflicting physical pain on him enjoyable.

This isn’t a major part of his character, as in there isn’t a lot of attention put on it in his canon, but there have been multiple hints that #2 does enjoy giving and possibly receiving physical pain (even if he might have a hard time actually feeling any physical pain inflicted on him.)

(HOWEVER, this doesn’t seem to be the case for stage 1 Killer. He shies away from any physical contact with most people (he even cowered away from Color, because he assumed that Color was there for a fight); he seems to associate touch with pain the same way #2 does, the only difference is that he doesn’t enjoy the idea and actively avoids touch. The only exceptions seem to be his cats and possibly Color.

Meanwhile, #2 enjoys pain, but only seeks out physical contact when it comes to fighting or when someone straight up asks him to touch them somehow (like asking #2 for a hug.)

(This also leans into the fact that, although #2 Killer can understand/accept/respect other people’s personal boundaries whenever they bluntly tell him their boundaries (ex. Calling Nightmare only by Boss because NM made it clear they aren’t anything more than a Boss & his servant), #2 doesn’t seem to have any personal boundaries.

The only one he seems to have is “don’t try to force him into feeling or talking about emotions if he doesn’t want to.” (Swap!Sans disrespecting this boundary is what led to the entire Killer!Sans vs Swap!Sans comic fight, btw.)

This is an example of how #2 Killer’s emotionlessness means he’s more likely to be a victim in a relationship than the abuser. You can genuinely do the most awful crap to him, and he just..can’t care. He doesn’t react at all to the times Nightmare has gotten physical with him, insulted him, or even the few times Nightmare has threatened to kill him.)

Outside of fighting, missions, and when he has to rely on his sense of touch to determine if something is really real or not; #2 doesn’t seem to actually initiate physical contact with another person unless asked to.

So, basically, if you want #2 to hug you or hold your hand; you’re probably gonna have to directly ask for it or initiate it yourself.

Otherwise he ain’t gonna do it, because what’s the point in doing that? If the two of you aren’t gonna fight eachother, and he doesn’t need to test if your actually real, why do that?

(I suppose a huge part of being in a relationship with Killer!Sans would be reintroducing him to casual physical intimacy. And also making it clear to him that he’s allowed to say ‘no’ to something. Helping him establish and maintain his own boundaries, and explaining to him why he even should.)

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When asked if Killer!Sans can speak Spanish, he responded that no, he can’t. But he can speak Arabic, because his Creator can.

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Yes, he does.

It’s a bit bigger than Classic’s, it’s two eyelights are tinier and ringed. It also has Determination leaking from its sockets, too. There’s a theory that it fires out goop, but I don’t know if that’s true or not. Killer rarely uses his Blasters, and the few times we have seen it, the comic ended right as the Blaster was about to fire and we didn’t get to see if any of the goop came out.

We’ve only seen Killer!Sans with one, and he used it in the Killer!Sans vs Swap!Sans comics. We don’t know what happened to his other one; if he somehow lost it or just doesn’t (or can’t) use it.

There’s a little theory going around that Killer only has one because he removed his “eye” to make his fighting more fun. That isn’t canon, however.

Killer!Sans still has both of his “eyes,” and it still glows. But it glows as sorta grayish-white.

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First things first, we don’t actually have any canon info on how Killer and Nightmare met.

However, when someone asked how NM was able to find Killer!Sans if he can’t feel anything, Killer said NM found him not because of HIS negativity, but because of the negativity in his AU.

When asked if Killer!Sans would ever be able to defeat Nightmare in combat, #2 Killer just shrugged and said he didn’t know. So I guess he’s not very interested in fighting Nightmare.

When asked if Killer!Sans knew anything about other AUs, he said he does because HE (Nightmare) showed him.

(Side note; Killer!Sans was also nervously sweating when says this. So either he’s a little uneasy with Nightmare (at least at first) or the talk about AUs unnerved him.)

Killer!Sans relationship with Nightmare isn’t anything more than a Boss and his servant. This was shown when stage 2 Killer tried to call Nightmare by his name, and Nightmare immediately corrected him that he’s his Boss.

#2 Killer didn’t seem to have any problems accepting this.

#2 is loyal to Nightmare and grateful to him, for finding him and giving him a purpose. He seems to respect Nightmare enough to follow his orders, but he doesn’t mindlessly follow Nightmare; he’s willing to question NM if he feels his Boss’ plans aren’t going to work.

This is despite the fact that he’s well aware that Nightmare has an awful temper and isn’t afraid to get physical if Nightmare feels even slightly disrespected.

(Shown in the comic where Nightmare chokes Killer until he passes out because he thought Killer pointing out the flaws in NM’s plans was Killer calling him weak.)

Nightmare also seems to verbally lash out at #2 a lot. Berating and insulting him if Killer says something that NM doesn’t like.

In this same comic, #2 Killer also brushes off any questions Nightmare might have about the soul he stole from the AU he was just in. This shows that #2 is willing to keep secrets from NM if he deems it none of Nightmare’s concern.

Killer doesn’t worship Nightmare or see him as his God. He doesn’t simp for him, or anything. He’s grateful, and he’s showing it by serving NM, but he isn’t obsessed with him. He offers Nightmare criticism and advice, he doesn’t suck up to him or kiss his feet or coddle him.

Killer does his job, and plays his role.

He does seem to understand Nightmare’s nature, as #2 seems to understand how Nightmare functions in terms of his hunger for negativity.

(Shown in the Stage 4 comic where #2 Killer says ‘don’t worry, I won’t kill you. I just need your negative feelings, for a ‘friend’.”)

When Killer!Sans decides to start working towards the Good Ending, we know that Nightmare starts forcibly switching Killer’s soul. And it messes with their memories; because #2 Killer doesn’t remember anything that happens as #1.

As a result, his loyalties are still with Nightmare. His relationship with his Boss doesn’t change, despite the fact that Nightmare’s basically holding them hostage now; because he doesn’t remember that he ever wanted to leave.

Or that there’s a reason to leave.

(The most that’ll probably change is that #2 will sometimes start feeling very uncomfortable and uneasy around Nightmare now, the same way he does with stars, but this time he doesn’t really know why.)

Despite their formal but clearly toxic relationship, #2 and Nightmare have their good moments. Which mostly consists of Killer teasing Nightmare until he’s annoyed or playfully flirting with him (much to Nightmare’s disgust.)

And even after finally getting the Good Ending, even after all the awful times with Nightmare, it seems that #2 Killer still “kinda misses that dude,” as he said.

And given that he has no response to the idea that Nightmare was only using him, it seems like he either already knew that or is in denial.

But given how much he understands Nightmare’s nature as a corrupted Guardian of Negativity, I’d say he knew that already and it’s just that...he can’t care.

He can’t feel a depth of emotion, what little he can he doesn’t understand.

I think that, no matter how awful Nightmare might’ve got, #2 Killer just looked at it as a being of negativity doing what it was meant to do. Nightmare is playing his role, the same way Killer is.

(The only difference is Nightmare had some semblance of a choice in his role. Killer’s role was assigned to him, and he had no real say.)

I’m sure it isn’t the same way for #1 Killer, though. Killer’s always in this stage when he tries to escape and keeps getting hurt for it, he’s in this stage when taking the emotional pain of Nightmare’s tantrums. He’s the one who remembers all the truly bad with Nightmare, not #2. He’s the one who FEELS all the bad.

Nearly every interaction we’ve seen with NM & Killer when he’s in stage 1 has ended badly. NM beating his cats right in front of him, and then when NM forcibly changed his soul; seemingly for the 1st time.

And then repeatedly does it whenever he tries to escape, which means probably more physical abuse whenever NM loses his patience.

Unfortunately, we don’t get to see Killer’s opinion on Nightmare when he’s in his feeling state; only his emotionless state. But given the disconnect that happens between stage 1 & 2 when Nightmare starts switching them, I think a huge part of any future therapy Killer goes through would be trying to reconnect both views of Nightmare into one.

Not just Good Nightmare and Bad Nightmare, but Nightmare; both “good” and “bad.”

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In the comic where Nightmare chokes Killer, we see that Swap (alongside Dream) are labeled in Killer’s head as ‘nice.’

Despite that however, Killer is seen consistently bullying Swap. Other than their fight in the Swap vs Killer comic, Killer also once tried to force Swap to eat some Nice Cream that fell on the floor.

It’s suggested by Killer that another him in another timeline might’ve kidnapped Swap & showed him “fun” and l.o.v.e. But he in the current timeline has never kidnapped Swap.

And when asked why Killer is always so mean to Swap, Killer was shown holding a bloody and bruised Swap by his shirt; giving the reasoning of “because it’s fun 🖤!”
(Yes, with the heart too. It’s those sadomasochist tendencies showing again. 😒)

There’s also a sorta of joke comic where Swap attempts to convince Killer to change by singing a Steven Universe song at him. Unfortunately, this little jokey comic shows Killer rapidly switching between stage 1 & 2 and actually ends with Killer asking Swap to “just kill him.” Much to Swap’s bewilderment.

Overall, Swap is well meaning and trying to help Killer, and Killer is well aware of this; however, all his attempts to help usually end with Swap accidentally triggering Killer’s CPTSD & causing flashbacks for him.

(Such as Swap taking Killer to see the stars, assuming it’d make Killer “feel again” because “all Sanses like stars.” However, this only causes what’s known as an emotional flashback for Killer.)

And this usually causes Killer to violently and aggressive lash out; attempting to force Swap to give up and leave him alone. (Shown by Killer asking “you won’t give up, will you?” before he led Swap into a trap. Swap’s cheerful response of “nope!” only certified stage 2 Killer’s choice to try and force Swap to give up & go away.)

Swap thinks Killer can change, and realizes that Killer’s in pain, but Killer refuses to believe there’s any hope left for him. That he can be “good” again.

Self sabotaging behavior, basically. A behavior that’s often found in traumatized people.

It also doesn’t help that Swap reminds him of Papyrus, which brings up memories and feelings that Stage 2 Killer desperately tries to avoid.

If Nightmare is Killer’s wrong person at the right time, Swap is Killer’s right person at the wrong time.

Swap is just too similar to Papyrus for Killer to ever feel comfortable around him, and Swap attempting to stay around someone who’s in an awful place in life & lashing out at anyone who tries to get too close isn’t good for Swap’s well being.

(Side note: I don’t think stage 2 Killer ever intended to kill Swap in the Killer vs Swap comic: just trying to beat Swap down & make him give up. Trying to deter Swap away from helping him.

He had many opportunities to kill Swap before Swap ever took him to see the stars. I mean, sure, stage 2 repeatedly threatened Swap and tried to intimidate him; but he never actually harmed him.

He didn’t kill him immediately, or hit him. He didn’t just shortcut away, and in fact, he even begrudgingly went along with Swap to see what Swap had to show him.

I think the moment that changed was when Swap Papyrus and Swap Chara showed up, and for a moment, the past and present became completely indistinguishable for him. One part of him was present, and the other part was stuck in a flashback.

Which explains why he started crying, and his soul slipped into stage 1, and yet he still called up his Blaster and attempted to get rid of Swap Papyrus & Chara.

In the end, though, he failed. Because Swap, Chara, and Papyrus all managed to get away safely; and the only one who had bad injuries was Swap. Both Chara and Papyrus somehow seemed fine, if a little shaken up.)

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There isn’t much material we have to go on for Killer’s “relationship” with Murder, so I ain’t very confident in this one; but here we go.

On Murder’s side of things, we know he wouldn’t like the fact that Killer “agreed” to the Human’s Deal and worked with them.

Despite that, however, we know that Murder wouldn’t try to attack Killer unless Killer attacked him; we know that Murder would be wary of Killer’s high LV and keep his distance. Given enough time, Murder might realize that—at the end of the day—Killer is just another timeline, another possibility, of what he himself could’ve been.

On Killer’s side, we know that Killer would put up this little facade of friendliness and teamwork. A little act of pretend emotions, as he often does.

He genuinely doesn’t seem to hold anything against Murder, and there isn’t anything to suggest that he’d purposely use Murder’s past to antagonize him like some fanfics like to suggest. (Unless, of course, doing so would benefit Nightmare.)

That being said, however, Killer does genuinely seem to be very uneasy and uncomfortable around Murder; even at one point, going as far as to shy away from Murder and try to make himself smaller. He hides it pretty well around Murder, but it’s very clear to see that he really doesn’t like being around Murder.

It’s never directly stated as to why, but I have a few guesses.

One reason I can think of is something that happens at like the beginning of the comic that talks about the Good Ending and the Bad Ending, I think.

There’s this panel in the comic where stage 2 Killer is looking off into the distance, wondering if he’s even truly Sans. One of the reasons he gives for this is that “Sans would never kill Papyrus.”

And, yet. Here he is; looking into the eye sockets of a Sans who did kill Papyrus.

So if, somewhere out there, there’s a Sans who chooses to kill Papyrus of his own free will (Murder had his reasons and believed it was needed to stop the Human, but he did actively choose to kill Papyrus, came up with that idea on his own) then what does that say about him?

Is he Sans? Is he not Sans?

Did he truly want to kill Papyrus? Was it him or Sans that wanted it? Or was it all just the Human, messing with their head and making them believe that Papyrus was their enemy?

Is “Sans” even real? Is “Killer” even real?

Basically, Murder’s very existence causes stage 2 Killer to doubt and question his entire existence and identity. Not to mention his motives.

Killer’s managed to convince himself that he wants this. That the Player wants it, so he must want it, too. Sans didn’t want it, but that doesn’t matter because Killer isn’t Sans and Killer wants it, but what does it mean if Killer is Sans?

Does it mean he doesn’t want this either?

Or does it mean that Sans wants this, too?

I don’t know which would be more disturbing to him.

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So I was just thinking about what would happen if Killer stayed with Nightmare instead of leaving with Color, trying to think of what would happen.

And I eventually just came to the conclusion that Killer would just die.
Someway, somehow, somewhere.

It’s likely he’d die alone. If he’s lucky, maybe Color or Dream would stay with him as he dies; cause Nightmare sure wouldn’t.

I feel like people vastly underlook the fact that Killer’s Determination is slowly killing him. It leaks out from his eye sockets, his “nose” and teeth. It’s been shown a few times that Killer coughs it out and is capable of choking on it.

His body is melting away the same way Undyne the Undying’s does in a Genocide Route, slowly and painfully. His soul may not be that of a Monster’s, and he himself may not consider himself a Monster anymore, but that doesn’t change the fact that his body is still that of a Monster skeleton.

Too much Determination isn’t good for Monsters.

I’m betting the only reason he hasn’t already melted away is the fact that his soul is floating outside his body.

The longer he works for Nightmare, silently does what his Boss & the Player wants from him, the more LV and Determination he gains. The more pain he’s in, the more his body corrodes.

The only way I can see him staying with Nightmare and not eventually just dying is if Nightmare somehow gets his hands on those Apples and decides to feed some to Killer.

This idea isn’t likely to happen though. Dream’s soul is the last Golden Apple, and Nightmare ate most if not all of the Negativity apples. So I don’t know where he would find one.

Not to mention the fact that Nightmare’s able to travel through multiple AUs and the likes.

There’s thousands of Killers out there that can replace the Killer he has now, so why would he waste his time trying to keep one of thousands alive?

And that assumes there’s any benefits for Killer—a mortal— in eating one. Passive Nightmare wasn’t mortal when he ate those apples. And it’s also assuming Killer even survives eating one and it doesn’t just kill him faster.

So it honestly seems that his options are go with Color and at least attempt to heal, or go with Nightmare and get even worse before dying.

It might take many years before his body has enough and can’t take anymore DT, and it’s more likely he’d die while on a mission for Nightmare; possibly due to a fight gone wrong. But he eventually would, I think.

(And, of course, things would most likely be different if we’re talking about a fanon/fanonish Nightmare who might actually care about Killer.)

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So I just realized that we never actually get a canon answer for what exactly would be able to fix Killer’s soul.

Color says that he “knows a guy” who could help, and Killer canonically steals and bargains for other people’s souls because, according to him, every soul has its unique “code” and he wants to study it.

So, it seems that Killer, at least, thinks the answer might be in somehow fixing his “coding.” But it doesn’t seem he’s made any progress on that front.

We assume that when Killer finally gets his Good Ending & leaves NM, that his soul is finally, somehow, fixed. But we also see in that one ask, where Abyss!Sans asked Killer if Nightmare was bothering him, that his soul’s still able to shift into its other stages.

So what do y’all think would be able to fix it? Do you think it’s less about “fixing” his soul, so much as it is allowing his soul time and a safe environment to heal?

More on that, is it really needed to fix his soul? The only time his soul being a danger to anyone else but himself comes up is when he’s triggered into stage 4, but stage 4 only seems to happen when faced with situations such as dealing with rapid “switching” and flashbacks during missions.

And Killer won’t be going on any missions if he leaves Nightmare, which means stage 4 is less likely to happen.

There’s also the fact that his soul is floating out in the open, which is a huge disadvantage that we see Nightmare taking advantage of.

Other then that, though, it’s pretty clear that Killer uses the stages of his soul as some sort of coping mechanism.

When things become too much for the inverted heart or maybe Chara gets too nasty & demanding, switching to the target soul means he doesn’t have to see Chara anymore and he’s less likely to hear their voice. Stage 4 is there to pick up where neither the inverted heart or the target can.

And it seems to be the only one he has right now. So just taking it away immediately doesn’t seem like it’d do him any good, not unless he gets put into some actual therapy first.

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As we know, in endings where Killer joins Nightmare and leaves his timeline, the real Chara is already dead by that point. Or, at least their body is.

We know the Chara STAGE 1 is able to see, hear, and speak to is “only in his head” because both Rahafwbas and #2 have both said so. Ex. When asked where Chara was, #2 simply points at his head.

When also know that #2 can sometimes hear Chara’s voice in their head, and that he always feels Chara’s presence; like it’s “always watching him.” (Rahafwbas described it as “you know that feeling when someone’s watching you but no one’s there? That’s what Chara is to Killer.”)

But when Killer’s in stage 1, he’s able to see, hear, and speak with this Chara.

Is this Chara hallucination? Because Rahafwbas says they aren’t real and only in his head, it might seem that way at first.

Except for the fact that Rahafwbas knows what a hallucination is. When see that in that one mini comic where she shows the differences between Murder!Sans and Killer!Sans.

In the panel where she talks about Papyrus, Killer (in stage #2) gets that he “sometimes feels sick for killing Papyrus” while Murder’s panel shows him talking to Phantom Papyrus; and Rahafwbas describes Phantom as “not real” and really just Murder talking to himself.

This Chara-in-the-head is never exactly described that way, and is never plainly stated to be a hallucination.

(And, oddly enough, in the very first comic where we see this Chara speaking with Killer; there’s a moment where their speech switches from red to yellow, and it refers to themself as “we.” Maybe that’s potentially supposed to be the Player, speaking ‘through’ this Chara?)

But, ultimately, I came to the conclusion that it really doesn’t matter if this Chara is the actual Chara or a hallucination or whatever else; because they’re clearly real to Killer.

This Chara seems to be and feel very, very, real to him. He cowers away from them and tries to make himself smaller when it gets too close, he never takes his eyelight off them except for the one time he tells it to “leave him alone,” and it seems like this ‘Chara’ always has to remind him that they’re “only in his head.”

They’re real to him, and he’s terrified of them.

And this, combined with the fact that his soul is the result of the monster soul being (forcibly) fused with the Determination soul, seems to be how this “Chara” maintains influence and control.

Through fear, and the threat of getting another “Bad Ending.” And surely you don’t want another Bad Ending, Sans..not after all those other times, right?

And at the end of day, that’s all that really matters.

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Rahafwabas has stated that Papyrus will always be Killer’s hardest enemy to defeat. He’ll still kill Papyrus with a smile, if that’s what he has to do, but it will be extremely obvious he doesn’t enjoy it.

It’s more likely he will avoid Papyri while on missions for Nightmare, but he will handle them if he must. (He won’t like it, though. And hopefully he doesn’t experience a stage switch while doing so, like he did in the stage 4 comic.)

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Rahafwbas has said that Killer!Sans doesn’t have a canon height. You can make him any height, weight, or “body” shape you want.

The only thing we know about his height is that he’s a few inches smaller than his Chara.

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EDIT:

Thanks to someone over on Tiktok, I managed to find the comic mentioned. It’s an entire comic series on Tumblr, that has both its current, ongoing version and its past/beta version.

To find the comic mentioned here, please look up @SansHazard on Tumblr and it should show up.
——-

I remember about a year ago, when I was scrolling through Rahafwbas’ Tumblr to collect things about Killer’s canon, I came across this comic that I can’t find anymore.

It was a sorta meta, collab comic where multiple Undertale AU creators got together and made a sorta “creations meet the creators” story, seemingly with an entire plot and everything.

During Rahafwbas’ part of the comic, there eventually comes the point where Killer meets her. And the first thing he does is call her out for naming him Killer, and seems to greatly dislike it.

This, compared with the fact that an Asker/Player actually suggested the name “Killer!Sans” to Rahafwbas since we already had a “Murder!Sans,” makes me rethink that one ask where another Asker/Player asks if Killer—after getting the Good Ending—is gonna change his name.

And how Killer’s response to that was no, that after all the bad things he did because of Nightmare, he has no right to change his name. Of course, Color immediately tries to reassure him that maybe he will, he just needs time, but this change of perspective about his name is interesting.

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There are no canon ships for Killer!Sans. Rahafwabas has said it’s fine to ship him with whoever you want, so long as it isn’t incest, pedophilia, or somehow harming other creators.

According to Rahafwabas, Killer is a romantic guy. It seems she said this part as sort of a joke, but you can consider it canon if you want.

Rahafwbas has crack shipped Killer with a few people, such as Color!Sans, Fell!Sans, and Murder!Sans.

However, the closest thing we have to a canon ship for Killer is ColorKiller, the ship between Killer and his canon best friend Color!Sans from Othertale.

Both Rahafwbas and Color’s creator (superyoumna on Tumblr & Youtube) have shown support for the ship and have openly encouraged people to ship them together.

(And of course, Rahafwbas has also said that she sees them more as bromantic than romantic, so it’s completely up to you if you actually wanna ship them or not.)

(I personally do, varying between romantic & a QPR, and because they’re cute and a great example of a healthy relationship. Color really cares about Killer, and Killer clearly trusts and feels safe with Color. That’s enough for me, especially if it means Killer gets to be free and have his chance to heal.)

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Just like with Killer & Nightmare, they don’t really have a relationship. They were on opposite sides and that was that, up until the “A Good Person?” comic, which is where the Driller ship has a sorta basis in Killer’s canon.

I’ve read many fanfics where Killer hates or looks down upon Dream simply because he works for Nightmare and is loyal to him.

This doesn’t seem to be the case. In fact, I’d say that Killer doesn’t have any strong opinions on Dream. They’ve fought on the battlefield, Dream is his Boss’ enemy, and that is that.

Killer doesn’t trust him, of course, and we see from the “A Good Person?” comic that there’s a moment where a part of Killer is seriously considering just killing Dream. And the comic ends before we see what Killer decides to do.

That’s most likely the part of him that’s loyal to Nightmare, not because he personally has anything against Dream. In fact, once he reassures himself that Dream is actually real, he allows his soul to shift back into its feeling stage.

In the Stars vs Killer comic, right after he rather brutally stabbed Dream with his own staff, Killer goes on this little monologue about how “dreams don’t help anyone” and he also says he’s only telling Dream this because Nightmare won’t allow him to kill Dream.

But he says this in such a matter of fact way I can’t really tell if it’s something he actually believes & holds against Dream, or if he’s just saying that to upset Dream and give Nightmare some negativity.

We also see in the comic where Nightmare chokes Killer that he has Dream labeled as “nice” inside his head. So yeah, Killer thinks Dream is nice.

On Dream’s side of things, he wants to help Killer; and took the opportunity as soon as he saw it. However, after spending time fighting against and being hurt by Killer while on the battlefield, he is understandably wary of and maybe a bit scared of Killer.

Despite his fear, however, he still allowed Killer to get up, walk towards him, and touch him.

There’s also a moment where Dream tries to call Killer “Sans,” — but Killer doesn’t react to this at all. Almost like he didn’t hear Dream.

This shows that Dream is at least aware of the inner struggle inside of Killer and is trying to help, but he doesn’t truly understand how disconnected Killer is from being Sans.

It feels like Dream just being himself, and I think maybe it helps Killer a bit to hear from the literal Guardian of Positivity that he can still be “good.” Or that there’s still “good” in him.

And when Dream informs Killer that the positivity he felt was in fact coming from Killer, he mentions that he felt positivity coming from Killer a few times before but he wasn’t certain of it. Implying that he would’ve tried to help sooner, if he had been certain.

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Killer!Sans doesn’t eat much.

We know he avoids foods like ketchup & chocolate because he doesn’t want to bring back up bad memories and emotions, although he would still prefer “hot melting chocolate” over ketchup. (Killer doesn’t have a favorite food, but Rahafwbas has said it’s fine to make chocolate his favorite food; which is a common thing with fanon Killer.)

Rahafwbas has also drawn him drinking something warm from a cup a few times, and that’s the only time we see him doing anything close to eating.

And when directly asked what his favorite food was, Killer straight up says he doesn’t eat.

But I’ve also seen someone theorize/head canon that it’s because he had to carefully ration his food in the Underground (after killing Chara) and he eventually ran out; so now he’s just grown used to running off liquids & Determination. I honestly agree with this idea.

I also think that the sensations of hunger just aren’t that big of deal for Killer. He’s clearly very disconnected from his body & its needs, so he most likely just forgets or just doesn’t wanna eat. Maybe doesn’t feel the need to.

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So y’all know how I use the out-of-canon numbering of Killer’s soul stages because it makes more sense to me like that?

I’ve realized that, as more people become aware of Killer’s canon, they’re using the in-canon numbering system. 1, 2, 3, 4. No 5.

But because I still wanna acknowledge the monster soul of his stages (even if Killer hasn’t been able to go into it), instead of calling it Stage 1, I’ll just call it Stage 0.

0, 1, 2, 3, 4.
(Monster soul,
Inverted red & white heart,
Target,
Jumbled, spinning mess (??)
Completely red heart
filled with Determination.)

Because of this, I’ll go back & edit a few chapters. I feel like doing this will make it easier to talk about his stages, and avoid confusion. So every time I do talk about them, I won’t have to say something like “this stage, aka this stage in the canon.”

Do y’all think it would make this easier?

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Killer!Sans seems to have kept connected to their roots as a scientist, at least somewhat.

He likes collecting monster dust and human blood from other AUs, and puts them in jars to study.

He also steals and bargains for other people’s souls (offering things like his ‘secrets’ in exchange for souls) because he wants to study each soul’s “coding.” It seems that he’s doing this in an attempt to try and fix his own soul/coding.

And on the topic of “coding,” — I have no idea how Killer knows about his own coding let alone the coding of other people’s souls. Maybe he can see or sense this coding, or maybe it’s just a theory he had & was proven correct when he tested it to see.

But other then that, the scientist part of him seems nearly completely gone.

Not even stage 1 seems to be in touch with their scientist roots the way Classic is/was: even though, out of all the Stages, Killer’s personality is the most similar to Classic while in this stage.

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——-
This comic was found by someone on the Wayback Machine. Thanks to ShibuyaNeko.

Here’s the link:
http://rahafwabas.tumblr.com/post/162069588480/and-now-something-new-happened-killersans

Go to Dec 13, 2018 capture.
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(Please read the comic before reading my rant below:)

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Because I didn’t know the comic above was made by Rahafwbas, I thought the first time we ever see Nightmare switching Killer’s soul was when he was talking to Color & almost decided to leave.

Because we’ve seen Nightmare interact with stage 1 Killer before without changing his soul (the comic where NM beat Killer’s cat), I assumed that maybe he had some choice in joining Nightmare. Hell, the comic about the cat ends with Killer switching his own soul to stage 2; not Nightmare.

But now that I know this is an official comic, and if it’s still canon, it changes a few things.

Like, why did Stage 2 Killer say Nightmare found him because of the negativity in his AU & not his own negative feelings when someone asked him how Nightmare found him if Killer can’t feel anything?

If we go by the idea that this comic is still canon (because Rahafwbas did delete it, alongside a lot of Killer’s lore), then that means that Nightmare discovered Killer while he was in stage 1 & triggered a switch into stage 2.

On top of that, stage 1 Killer was about to delete himself from his world after Resetting; because he wanted to give Papyrus his Good Ending, and believed him deleting himself would not only make Papyrus happier; but would also let him finally rest.

It seems like stage 1 was at the end of his rope. Chara was gone, stage 2 killed them over and over. Made them suffer, as he promised he was gonna do. Now all he had to do was get rid of himself. Then everyone would be happy.

So, yeah. I’d say Nightmare certainly sensed his negative emotions.

Did stage 2 not remember this? Did he think he joined Nightmare willingly or something, and that’s why he’s ‘bad’ & can never be ‘good?’

And also, what was all that talk from Dream about a good person still being inside of Killer?

If he never willingly joined Nightmare, then there was never a debate about if he’s a good person or not; they’re a victim trying to survive in an awful situation with someone they don’t even know.

Hmm..maybe that’s why Color was the one to save them and not Dream. To Dream, he thinks it’s just someone doing bad things because they’re hurting; like Cross. Not someone who never had a choice in joining Nightmare in the first place.

And if Killer didn’t clearly remember what happened, he’s probably thinking somewhat similar to Dream. Only while Dream thinks he can be “good,” Killer doesn’t think so.

Maybe because he thinks he willingly joined Nightmare, if he’s “willingly” doing Nightmare’s bidding & following his orders while in stage 2.

(After all, while explaining his soul stages to Color, stage 1 described stage 2 exactly like this: “Don’t trust me when I’m like that.” Meaning he doesn’t see stage 2 as a separate person, but stage 2 is still somehow “not him” enough where stage 1 can’t predict what he’d do.

Just assumes it’d be something dangerous.)

Meanwhile, Color understands it isn’t about being a “good” or “bad” person.

It’s about Killer needing hope, a reason to stand up against Nightmare & a reason to even leave. Needing someone to trust, and someone who’s strong enough to not have to worry about Nightmare’s wrath. (Like what Nightmare did to his cat..)

Someone strong enough to save him, someone strong enough to protect him. (Which is exactly what Color did in this comic.)

It’s about Killer, all stages of Killer, needing somewhere safe to heal; supported by someone they know they’re safe with.

But all that being said, Stage 2 Killer still “kinda misses that dude.” The dude who used him, the dude he can’t explain why he misses.

Reading that line after reading the comic above is honestly disturbing..

——

(This isn’t really going anywhere btw, just needed to get my thoughts in order.)

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Killer!Sans doesn’t like stars because they remind him of the Resets, and this seems to imply that he gained the ability to see save points at some point.

Swap!Sans attempting to show Killer stars was enough to cause flashbacks for him & what motivated him to get violent with Swap.

I think it’s safe to assume his least favorite AU would probably be Outertale. Set in space, too many stars.

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The color of Killer’s blush is blue.

This has never been directly stated, but Rahafwbas has drawn him with a blue blush before.

This fact is completely useless & unimportant, I just think Killer looks prettier with a blue blush instead of the red one the fandom often draws him with.

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When asked what would happen if Killer were to meet Classic, Rahafwbas said “they’d both have a bad time.”

When asked his opinion on Error, Killer said he thinks that Error’s “unique.”

And given that Rahafwbas has drawn Killer chilling with his cats in a completely white place that looks like the Anti-Void a few times, I like to HC that they sometimes chill out together.

Exchanging cats between the two of them, but in a manner where they don’t ever really see or talk to eachother. They’re both aware of the other’s presence in the Anti-Void, but neither is really interested in getting to know eachother beyond their shared love of cats. (Just my personal HC tho.)

When asked what Killer’s reaction to Fresh would be, Killer simply held a hand up to his face (to block out all the colors coming from Fresh) & said “what the fuck.”

(As is commonplace when cursing around Fresh, the actual ‘fuck’ was censored.)

When asked his opinion on Cross, we never actually get an answer because all the questions were being marked out. It’s suggested by one of Killer’s internal “voices” that maybe it’s Error crossing that all out, and Killer agreed. However, Rahafwbas did draw something where Killer was handing Cross some chocolate (much to Cross’ delight.)

We’ve seen Killer interact with Epic!Sans twice, both times being in strictly meme format. They seem chill, and given that Killer knows Color & Cross & they both know Epic, I’m guessing Killer met Epic through them.

And since both Color and Epic know Delta!Sans, I’m assuming Killer would know him to; but that’s strictly just speculation.

Killer attempted to stab Abyss!Sans once because he kept poking him. (Thankfully Color was there to stop him.)

Abyss is also the one who asked Killer if Nightmare was still bothering him, & it’s thanks to Abyss’ question that we learn #2 Killer still kinda misses Nightmare.

(In Abyss’ official comics, there’s a moment where—after staring deep into Abyss’ sockets (into the abyss)—Killer starts hearing voices of the past. Papyrus, Chara, Grillby, his own voice & things he was thinking at that time; back when he was still just Sans. Stage 2 is terribly confused, and it only takes a moment before Abyss forces a switch into stage 1 by saying Killer’s name, before correcting himself by calling Killler “Sans.”

Stage 1 panics. He’s angry, tears in his eyes. Abyss blames him for what happened—questions why he’s upset, that he had a “choice.” Stage 1 tearfully denies it, says he never wanted or asked “for this.”

Stage 1’s speech starts turning from white to red as he threatens to kill Abyss. Killer calls him a monster, warns him to stay away from him or he’ll kill him just before stage 1 shortcuts away.

It isn’t exactly canon to Killer’s story, but yeah. I completely understand why stage 2 later tries to stab Abyss.)

We all know how Killer meeting Underswap Sans, Papyrus, and Chara went: badly.

I’ve already done an analysis of Killer’s “relationships” with the Dreamtale brothers (I also need to edit my chapter about Nightmare, given what we know now) & Murder!Sans, as well as his friendship with Color.

When asked if he ever met/thought of Outer!Sans, Killer was shown holding his dusty jacket & said along the lines of “oh, yeah. I remember him; that one Sans I killed.” And given that stars make Killer uncomfortable, I think it’s likely he avoids going to Outertale.

(However, when someone asked Rahafwbas what she thought of the Killer x Outer ship, she said “it’s cute.”)

Killer has met Ink, and fought him at least two times. We haven’t seen any personal, one on one interactions between them like we have with Dream & Swap. However, during the comic where Nightmare chokes Killer, Ink is still included in Killer’s mental list of people.

However, whereas Dream & Swap are labeled as ‘nice,’ Ink is labeled as ‘nice?’ This is most likely because, as mentioned above, Killer has never really interacted with Ink like he has with Dream & Swap, and therefore doesn’t have any opinions on him.

But the fact that Killer at least considers the possibility that Ink could be “nice” probably says a lot. I think he’s considering Ink in that list simply because Ink’s associated with Dream & Swap, people he considers nice.

Of course, Killer being Killer, isn’t so quick to form opinions on others he has never interacted with.

We haven’t seen anything about Killer & Horror!Sans interacting.

I think it’s safe to assume Killer will never get along well with any AUs of Frisk or Chara.

Given that he avoids, runs away from, and sometimes even has to kill Papyrus AUs while out on missions: I think it’s safe to assume that the thought of even getting close with an AU of Papyrus has never seriously crossed his mind.

However, someone on Tumblr proposed the idea that—after Killer leaves Nightmare—Killer, while doing something in an AU that went through a Genocide Route, winds up interacting with a babybones Papyrus of this AU.

The Babybones, at first, confuses Killer with his Sans. But because this is a dusted AU, this Papyrus’ Sans is very likely already dead.

So, Killer offers to be this Papyrus’ new older brother; and the Paps agrees. And from there, Killer goes on to be very protective of this Papyrus; and Color greatly approves of this new relationship.

I mention this because Rahafwbas reposted this picture, and voiced her approval of the idea. So although it isn’t canon, it does seem possible for Killer to possibly grow and nurture a connection with an AU Papyrus.

(But of course, given everything we know about Killer’s past, there undoubtedly be some type of struggle going on here. Thankfully, though, this is the Good Ending; meaning Killer has Color’s help & support, he’ll likely have Dream’s & Epic’s & Delta’s, and he’ll hopefully be in therapy.)

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For some unknown, unexplainable reason Killer smells good. Really good.

Rahafwbas has never said what exactly he smells like, just that it’s good. She mentioned this when talking about the idea of Killer’s height, weight, and body type.

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When asked which hand was Killer’s dominant hand, Rahafwbas answered that he’s a lefty.

Although, we’ve seen him use his right hand before; so it’s safe to assume he’s a bit ambidextrous, but left is his dominant hand.

(But of course, Rahafwbas has never said he is ambidextrous; so this could’ve just been some drawing errors. No one’s gonna realistically keep track of such tiny details when they’re spending a lot of time drawing comics.)

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A lot of fanart and fanfics depict Killer with red knives. More often then not, these knives are shown to be created by the magic/Determination in his soul. It’s so show Killer’s connection with Chara & their magic.

However, the only time I can think of where Killer has those types of weapons in his canon, is when Rahafwbas drew him wielding a katana. I’m pretty sure the katana was completely red.

So I suppose it’s possible for Killer to make those types of weapons using his soul’s magic, but Rahafwbas has never directly stated that he can.

The only other time we’ve seen him with hand held weapons was with one Real Knife. But knowing Killer, it’s safe to assume he has knives and weapons everywhere on his person.

We’ve seen this knife about three times I would say. Once in the Something New comics, in the Swap vs Killer comic when Killer stabbed Swap in the eye socket, and when Killer tried to stab Abyss.

It seems he keeps this knife in his jacket pocket.

He most likely will use anything he can get his hands on as a weapon.

During the fight versus Ink & Cross, we see that Killer’s fist alone was strong enough to break the ground and create a crater. He also seems strong enough to hold his opponents down on the ground with just one foot.

He also seems very fast, as in the Killer vs Cross & Ink comic, he was fast enough to appear behind Ink before Ink could react & him being very fast was how he was even able to get a good punch in on Ink.

During the Stars vs Killer comic, we also see Killer taking and using Dream’s own weapon—his staff—against him.

We’ve also seen from the Killer vs Swap comic that Killer isn’t afraid to fight dirty and pull nasty little tricks.

Other then that, there’s his Gaster Blaster: which he rarely seems to use. In fact, I’m pretty sure the only time we’ve seen him use it was at the very end of the Swap vs Killer comic; he used it against Swap Papyrus.

He still has Sans’ telekinesis ability, I think it’s called? We’ve seen him use it against both Swap & Dream, in the Swap vs Killer & Stars vs Killer comics, respectively.

He also uses bones, which we see in a flashback during the comic where Killer tells Nightmare he’s leaving him.

So I’d say Killer’s pretty crafty & versatile.

However, his biggest downfalls in a fight is how he doesn’t take his opponents seriously and how easily bored he gets in fights.

This doesn’t seem to come from arrogance, he doesn’t underestimate his opponents because he believes he’s better than them or anything, just that his time & experience in his timeline has made violence a rather mind-numbing & boring task.

As a result, he tends to underestimate his opponents; after all, it’s been awhile since he’s faced someone who could pose an actual challenge to him.

I’ve also noticed that, when facing multiple opponents, he almost always seems to just focus in on one and almost forget the other.

That was shown in the comic where he fights Ink & Cross. He focused so much on Ink—and only Ink—that it’s almost like he forgot that Cross was even there.

This was also even shown in Underverse. He was solely focused on taking down Dream that he completely forgot about Cross, which is why Cross/X-Gaster was able to get such an easy drop on him.

I wonder if it’s his Determination that causes him to focus in on just one.

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Killer is a character that struggles to trust himself & his reality, and he often struggles to tell with absolute certainty what is and isn’t real; as shown by the comic where he interacts with Dream, one on one, for the first time.

Rahafwbas states this the result of the Resetting that went on for many years in his timeline, and reality checking is still perfectly intact, so this isn’t psychosis like it is for Murder!Sans.

I’m also highly certain this uncertainty with himself and his reality is the result of extreme dissociation and also the years of gaslighting he underwent when he was still just Sans; and even after getting stolen from his timeline, these are unfortunately still two bigs things he greatly struggles with.

I wouldn’t be surprised if he often feels like he’s walking through or living in a dream.

(After all, their issues with dissociation were created on purpose. Chara’s goal throughout the years was clearly to break him down, traumatize him enough that he’d go into what’s known as a dissociative state. Those who are in dissociative states—especially when they’re purposely put into one—are often highly suggestible to the ideas, thoughts, and actions of things they’d normally never think or do.

Unless someone suggests and carefully prods them into that direction, of course...)

He relies on his sense of touch to discern what is and isn’t real, however—in the comic where we’re introduced to that idea—their soul switched from stage 1 to stage 2 right before he got up to go and check if Dream was real or not via touching Dream’s “cheeks.”

Their soul only switches back to stage 1 once stage 2 verbally confirms, out loud, that Dream is in fact real. From there, Killer immediately puts his hands back in his jacket pockets while their soul switches back.

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Killer (at least, stage 2 Killer) always seems very pleased being complimented. It’s in a pretty chill, nonchalant way; but it’s pretty clear he’s pleasantly surprised when receiving compliments.

There’s one time he’s shown blushing from a compliment, a few where he ends his sentences with little hearts at the end, and he always thanks whoever is complimenting him. (Often with that little heart tacked on at the end.)

I like to joke that he has a praise kink lol.

There’s also been a few times where he has hugged an Asker/Player whenever they ask him for a hug.

One time a fan asked Killer to sign something for them—because they’re his “biggest fan”—and Rahafwbas drew him softly pressing this little batch of circle shaped fur—almost shaped the way his target soul is—the Asker had on their head before stage 2 Killer says something along the lines of “sure, anything for you.”

(On the other hand, he doesn’t seem to gaf about insults. He just shrugs them off, probably used to be consistently insulted and criticized by both Chara & Nightmare.

There was this one ask where someone asked Killer to please die and never come back, and Killer’s response was just “ok.”

When someone else said he could never be good because of all the monsters he’s killed, Stage 2 Killer just shrugged (& in red text) said “It’s not my fault they are weak.”)

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Killer!Sans seems to be at least somewhat aware of the concept of Multiverses.

I don’t know if it’s just a theory he has or if he knows for certain, but in the comic where Nightmare chokes Killer, Killer attempts to calm his Boss down by explaining that Nightmare needs to find the Multiverse where the “Player” considers Nightmare to be the strongest in order for NM to win against Core Frisk.

That being said, it seems Killer isn’t aware of the concept of “Creators.” Like, for example, Ink!Sans knows about Creators. However, Killer does seem to be aware of the fact that the Players somehow have a say in those types of things.

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A common misconception I see around Killer is the belief that he needs Nightmare in order for his soul to go back into stage 2.

Nope. Killer’s able to switch his soul into stage 2 as he pleases;

This was shown at the end of the comic where Nightmare beat and/or killed one of his cats. Stage 1 switches to Stage 2, and 2 is the one who picks up the cats and I’m guessing either takes them to a vet or goes to bury the kitty somewhere.

We also saw it in the “A Good Person?” comic. The one where Dream senses stage 1’s positivity & decides to go talk to Killer.

Killer switches to stage 2 when performing his “reality test” on Dream, before allowing his soul to switch back to stage 1 once he was sure that Dream was actually real.

Other than that, the comic where Killer goes to tell Nightmare that he’s leaving. His soul was in stage 2 the entire time, from beginning to end.

His soul became a huge problem when Nightmare starts forcibly changing it.

Stage 2 falls back on his conditioning/“coding”, doesn’t remember Color clearly or even what just happened a few seconds before Nightmare changed his soul. Forced switches mess with their memories, and very likely his identity.

And given that one timeline where Nightmare kidnaps Killer, it’s quite possible he was always messing with his memories.

As it doesn’t seem like stage 2 was aware that he was, ya know...kidnapped. Makes me wonder if NM somehow convinced him that he joined him willingly or something.

And why wouldn’t he believe it? #2 does seem to be the one who holds onto to the belief that he’s “bad” & can never be “good.”

A lot of what happened between Color & stage 2 happens off screen, but I’m assuming something happened to make him remember that a part of him never wanted this. Never joined Nightmare willingly.

I wonder if that’s why he decides to leave. For that part of him, and maybe because he likes Color. But not for himself, considering he says he does still “kinda” miss Nightmare.

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—-

We’ll get the basics out of the way first.

When asked if Killer or Nightmare would win in a fight, stage 2 Killer just shrugs and says “idk.” So he obviously ain’t interested in fighting Nightmare, at least in this point of time.

However, in the comic where Nightmare chokes Killer, we’re shown that Killer has a mental lists of people’s power levels & Nightmare is above himself. So he considers Nightmare stronger.

When asked if he AUs like Classic, Swap, Fell, etc. Killer says he does, because “he” showed him. Nightmare is shown behind him, and Killer is nervously sweating when he says it.

Nightmare is the one enforcing the whole “Boss” thing, as when Killer tried to call him by his actual name, Nightmare immediately corrected him.

They aren’t anything more than a Boss & his servant, at least on the surface, but we all know it’s actually just a kidnapper and his hostage.

(In the comic where stage 2 Killer leaves him, he finally calls Nightmare by his full name because, as he says, Nightmare isn’t his Boss anymore. At one point, he even mockingly calls him “Nighty.”)

When directly asked what Killer’s opinion of Nightmare was, he said (in red text) that he thinks Nightmare’s pretty bossy. And when Nightmare threatens to kill him immediately after, Killer just says (in red text) “cool.”

In the comic where Killer finally decides to leave Nightmare in favor of Color, we see how they met.

Nightmare kidnapped him, forced his soul into stage 2 multiple times in order to make Killer do his dirty work.

This was after Killer finally got what was supposed to be his Good Ending. He played the Human’s sick game and won, he now has the ability to Reset.

He apologizes to Papyrus, and says his goodbyes before running off. It’s then revealed that stage 1’s idea of a Good Ending is Resetting the world back to the way it was before, just without him this time.

He’s going to give Papyrus his Happy Ending, the ending he deserves, and then he’s gonna delete himself from the world. He will finally be able to rest, is how he describes it.

Stage 1 Killer’s idea of a Good Ending is everyone being happy & safe, without him, because he’d be gone and dead. Resting.

Until Nightmare shows up, takes this from him, and now he’s being forced to live.

He has nothing to live for, there’s no way Nightmare would let him die after having gone through the trouble of getting him and keeping him.

The whole Multiverse (rightfully) fears and distrusts him, because of the things Stage 2 does while following Nightmare’s orders.

It doesn’t help their situation that, whenever someone such as Blue tries to offer help, stage 2 just pushes them away. Often rather violently.

It makes sense why he’d deny their help, the idea that someone is trying to give you false hope is maddening when you’ve spent years having yours beaten and sucked out of you every time you eventually gained it back.

Stage 2 doesn’t show any fear of Nightmare, probably because he can’t really feel fear. (Mostly. We saw how he reacted when he mistook Underswap Chara for his own Chara in the Killer vs Swap comic.)

We’ve seen him playfully flirting with Nightmare just because he wants to annoy him.

Except for the 1-on-1 fight against Swap, all of Killer’s fights with the Star Sanses + Cross all happened because Nightmare was right there and watching.

In fact, when Dream asks Killer why he’s doing it, Killer says because Dream’s “bro-bro” asked him to. He also says he finds fighting the Star Sanses fun, but he also can’t really feel joy, so bro’s probably talking just to talk really.

We’ve also seen that Killer avoids killing unless told otherwise because canon Nightmare doesn’t kill.

There’s been a few times where Stage 2 has stepped out of line and tried to offer Nightmare advice or criticism, as shown in the comic where Nightmare choked him until he fainted.

(In fact, Nightmare chokes up precisely because he stepped out of line.)

Probably makes sense that Stage 2 would “forget his place” sometimes. Must’ve been an adjustment period to go from finally getting out from under someone’s thumb (Chara), only to find yourself back under someone else’s, Nightmare’s.

In the Good Ending, when Abyss!Sans asks Killer if Nightmare is still bothering him, Stage 2 Killer (In red text, aka Determination) says he “kinda misses that dude.”

He has nothing to say when Abyss asks him how he can miss someone who used him for world domination.

(I wouldn’t be surprised if Nightmare had somehow managed to twist Killer’s Determination to his advantage. A part of Killer is still very clearly Determined to stay loyal, even though he was able to willingly leave Nightmare.

Wouldn’t be surprised if the thought of going back has seriously crossed his mind a few times. Stockholm Syndrome, it’s a bitch.)

We’ve seen precisely 3 interactions between Nightmare & stage 1 Killer. When NM first kidnapped him, when NM beats his cat, and when NM prevents him from accepting Color’s help & leaving via forcibly changing the soul into stage 2.

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When asked when Killer’s birthday was, Rahafwbas said they didn’t know because she didn’t remember the day she created Killer.

Older members of the fandom say it’s between May 5-10, 2017. They seemed to have came to the conclusion that Killer’s very first appearance was May 10th, 2017.

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When asked if Killer misses his Frisk, he simply smiled and said; “I miss stabbing their face.”

And that’s all we got about Killer’s relationship with Something New!Frisk.

He doesn’t talk about them or bring them up unless prompted—which rarely seems to happen anyways—and it seems he barely even thinks about them.

The only exception seems to be when he starts seeing the shadowy figures of everyone from his AU, and a shadowy version on Frisk is there.

Since Rahafwbas said Killer sometimes hears the voices of his friends and family in his head, sometimes being nice& sometimes being mean, it’s possible Frisk’s voice is among them, too.

Other than that, just like almost everyone else from his AU, Frisk is a shadowy figure. It’s only possible that Killer doesn’t even remember them clearly, or hardly at all.

We’ve also never seen him interacting face to face with a Frisk AU, like we have for a Chara AU, but it’s safe to assume any meeting between Killer & a Frisk AU will end the way it did between Killer & Underswap!Chara.

Violently.

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When asked if Killer likes anyone, Killer actually *perks up*—looking almost close to Sans—and says yeah, yeah he did.

Behind him is the shadow of Toriel as Killer deflates again, sadly commenting that he’ll “never be able to see her again.”

So, yeah. It does seem that, back when Killer was just Classic Sans; he had a bit of a crush on Toriel.

It doesn’t seem like it was anything major or that he ever had any intentions of acting on his feelings, though. And it seems like Sans has accepted the fact that he’ll, unfortunately, never see Toriel again.

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In the timeline where Killer defeats his Human and gains the ability to Reset, but Nightmare shows up before he can delete himself from his AU, Papyrus is still alive.

In this timeline, Rahafwabas said it’s exactly like Undertale except Sans isn’t there.

Everyone remembers Killer as Sans, and they all think he’s just somehow missing.

No one remembers any of the timelines before, and I’m assuming Papyrus doesn’t remember when Sans/Killer told him he was “leaving,” or when they hugged before Killer pushed Papyrus away and ran.

Papyrus is still looking for his brother in this timeline.

——

(Interesting how Color was forgotten by his loved ones because he made a choice while trying to protect them from the Human, and meanwhile Killer made a choice to try and be forgotten because he wanted to protect his loved ones from himself.)

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Killer, even back when he was just Sans, seems to struggle with asking people for help. And as we saw in the Killer vs Swap comic, stage 2 violently rejected Swap’s help.

Stage 1 even attempts to do this too, as shown by the comic where—after Color stumbled upon him crying to himself—he attempted to scare Color away and failed miserably.

With Sans, we see this after he kills for Papyrus for the very first time. While Sans is struggling to grasp what just happened (what he just did) he’s also talking out loud to himself; saying things like “we never told him” and “he didn’t know.”

This seems to imply that Sans never once tried to tell someone what was happening to him. And I think this was is a result of what is called “Learned Helplessness.”

Here are some definitions to explain what that is;

Learned helplessness is frequently the result of experiencing stress or trauma. People may feel that they have little to no control over the situation. Because of the lack of control, people may feel helpless and unmotivated to take action.

Learned helplessness, the failure to escape shock induced by uncontrollable aversive events, was discovered half a century ago. Seligman and Maier (1967) theorized that animals learned that outcomes were independent of their responses—that nothing they did mattered – and that this learning undermined trying to escape.

Learned helplessness occurs when an individual continuously faces a negative, uncontrollable situation and stops trying to change their circumstances, even when they have the ability to do so.

Learned helplessness essentially impairs our ability to see that we have any control and therefore we falsely claim the power and control resides outside of ourselves. Unlearning helplessness means taking back the control and power. It begins with awareness, requires hope, and depends on action.

I’m sure you can see where this belief of Killer’s & Sans’ came from.

The Human has the ability to Reset, whenever they pleased. No matter what Sans did to them, they won’t die or stop. And seemingly no one other than Sans & the Human themself remember what happens after a Reset.

So therefore, it wouldn’t have mattered if Sans would’ve told Papyrus what was happening or not. He’d forget by the next Reset, and it isn’t like he can do anything to stop the person who has complete control of their timeline.

With Nightmare, he showed up after Killer finally managed to defeat the one who was controlling his timeline. Managed to defeat what was basically a God, only to immediately fall under another so called God.

On top of this, Nightmare isolates Killer from the rest of the Multiverse. Stage 2 is used to fight, hurt, terrorize and sometimes even kill people who were just trying to live their lives.

The Multiverse, rightfully and understandably, fears and hates Killer.

Stage 1 has no one to turn to, especially when stage 2 is only further pushing people away and proving to the Multiverse that they’re right to fear & hate him.

The only way he’d be able to hide from Nightmare is by remaining emotionless, so he wouldn’t be able to sense his negativity, but at that point in time there was absolutely no way Stage 2 was gonna care enough to run & stay hidden from Nightmare.

It doesn’t help that, on top of all that, there’s this Chara in his head. Even though they’re supposed to be dead, Killer still can’t escape them or their control.

So, really. All this is just proving to him that it’s pointless to try. Pointless to try and escape, make any choices for himself, pointless to try & resist, pointless to hope for a savior.

(Until Color & Dream come along, of course..)

——

(This might also be the reason why stage 1 Killer just sat and quietly watched Nightmare beat his cat right in front of him.)

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When asked who his best friend was, Killer was shown staring wide eyed at the ‘screen’ and the only thing he could muster up were the words “..what?”

Behind him was the dark shadow of Papyrus.

——-

According to Rahafwabas, Killer sometimes hears the voices of everyone from his timeline in his head. Sometimes they’re mean, sometimes they’re nice.

He also mostly just sees them as shadowy figures, and they’re all always shown behind him; he’s often purposely looking away from them.

Obviously, he’s either forgotten what they looked like or is purposely trying to forget. And he isn’t trying to force himself to remember what they looked like.

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I think it says a lot about Killer’s intelligence that, whenever it comes to facing people stronger than him, he silently gathers information and patiently waits for the time to come where he strikes.

He did it with Chara. Playing their game as they wanted, quietly observing the things they said and did; noticing things about how they were able to control the Reset.

Quietly building his Determination up more and more, and once he felt it was more than Chara’s, only then did he ask for confirmation on how Chara was able to control the Resets.

And as soon as they confirmed his theory, he swiftly and brutally got rid of them. Before preceding to use their own abilities against them, to make them suffer. He even said “I don’t need you anymore” before throwing them away like trash.

With Nightmare, we saw that—as soon as Nightmare changed his soul—a part of Killer decided right then and there that he was going to hurt Nightmare the way he hurt him.

And once Color managed to get stage 2 to come around, Killer quietly started gathering information and working behind Nightmare’s back.

He kept up an act, and Nightmare never suspected a thing as Killer worked behind his back to save AUs and do research on Nightmare’s history and weaknesses.

I also find it very interesting that Stage 2 is the one who dealt with both Chara and Nightmare, even though he was often considered to be their “pet.”

Bro is the definition of “when they go low, I go low-ER.”

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Because I’ve seen some people on Tiktok saying Killer has 2 cats & 1 bunny, and that he got them before joining Nightmare, I decided to clear it up.

First, with the bunny. No, Killer doesn’t ‘canonically’ have a bunny.

This idea came from a post someone on Tumblr made about their AU version of Killer!Sans, who had a bunny and liked bunnies.

Rahafwbas reblogged the post, commenting that—although Killer likes bunnies—he absolutely adores cats. So although ‘canon’ Killer doesn’t own a bunny, it’s ambiguously canon that he does like them.

He would probably own them if he could.

Two: yes Killer does have 2 cats. We all know that Nightmare beats/kills one, but by the comic where Killer & Dream talk, Killer has 2 cats again.

So either Killer managed to save the cat that Nightmare beat, or another cat came up to him.

Three: Killer “got” his cats AFTER joining Nightmare. Killer was forced to join Nightmare, and given the circumstances of his AU, there’s no way he would’ve been able to care for any cats.

How did Killer get his cats?

Out of canon, Killer only has cats because an Asker/Player wanted to see his reaction to a cat sitting on his lap.

In the picture that Rahafwbas drew in response to that, Killer is petting the cat sitting on his lap & saying;

“You both don’t have a home too huh?”

In canon, this implies that the cats are strays that Killer is taking care of. They seem to be able to come and go as they please. Seems like he’s slowly building & taking care of a cat colony without even meaning to.

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When someone asked if Killer was still a virgin or not, Rahafwabas said—since we don’t know if Sans Undertale is a still a virgin—we don’t know if Killer!Sans is still a virgin or not.

So I guess it’s up to y’all if he’s still a virgin or not.

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When asked if he ever felt anything after killing someone, somehow, stage 2 Killer was shown staring down at a pile of snow & dust.

He was staring down at Papyrus’ scarf—surrounded by things like Alyphs’ glasses and Undyne’s spear—and with that white eyelight shining in his right eye socket, his response was: “I don’t know...”

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As we all know, Killer is an alternate timeline of Sans, not an alternate universe. And since Sans used to be a scientist, Killer used to be too.

However, it’s been a very long time since Killer has done anything “sciencey,” and in fact, he’s nearly completely stopped.

The only science based things he still does are these:

1. He puts human blood & dust from AUs into labelled jars in his free time, to study it.

2. In the Swap vs Killer, Killer made a comment towards Swap Chara along the lines of “I’ve never studied a human arm before” or “I’ve never studied a human before.” (Obviously a threat, but ‘study’ is the word there.)

3. He steals & bargains for other people’s souls because he claims they all have codes and he wants to study them.

(He has never said why, but I think it’s obvious he’s trying to fix his own soul’s coding. Which is a pretty dumb & dangerous thing to do on his own.)

(His want for souls is so deep he even still collects them during Stage 4, as shown by the end of the Stage 4 comic & by its following comic, where NM choked Killer.

That’s also the comic where we learn that Killer is keeping his whole “code fixing” thing a secret from Nightmare.)

So, why does Killer not do science as much anymore? Since he clearly still has the same level of intelligence as Classic, even though his intelligence has just shifted to a different area. (Such as battle IQ & strategy.)

I think there’s two major reasons;

1. Nightmare. As I’ve said before, he has no use for Sans and prevents Killer from reverting back to being Classic. Showing any outside similarities to Sans or signs of reverting is dangerous for Killer.

(Which is also probably why Killer hides the reason he’s collecting souls from Nightmare. He doesn’t want him to know, because then he’ll stop Killer from basically trying to deprogram himself.)

2. It brings up bad memories and emotions for Killer. He can’t eat ketchup anymore for the same reason, the Resets in his AU ruined the like for stars that most Sanses have.

Science could just be another thing the human stole from him. Alongside nearly everything else.

It’s also hard to be interested in things you use to like if that person doesn’t feel like you, and if you’re under constant threat of punishment for liking it or showing interest.

(Not to mention he’s spent years being designed and conditioned to be a killer. It’s literally in his code, as if he’s programmed to be that way when his soul is in Stage 2. And neither the human or Nightmare have any use for a scientist, so...)

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When asked if he ever got tired of everything, Killer’s response (in red text) was “what do you mean, tired? You wanted this. You all wanted this!”

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It seems like it’s canon in Killer’s story that those who have Determination souls are able to sense his intentions or at least his overwhelming Determination.

This was shown in the Killer!Sans vs Swap!Sans comics, when Swap Chara first noticed Killer through Swap Undyne’s surveillance cameras.

As soon as they noticed the Determination in Killer’s soul, even though the cameras, they were able to tell that his intentions towards a Swap in that moment definitely weren’t good.

They felt it so intensely it caused tears to come up in their eyes, and they squeezed the area where their soul would’ve been as if their soul was hurting.

And them sensing that and seeing that was what made them immediately go find Stretch, Swap Papyrus, and go rescue Swap just in time.

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Am I the only one who wants to see Stage 2 Killer’s emotionlessness actually acknowledged in fanfics?

And not in a way that demonizes him or makes him out to be an asshole or horrible person because of it, which is often the only times people acknowledge it.

His near emotionlessness says a lot about what happened to him. His emotionlessness depending on what Stage his soul is in, and his soul being connected to his codes, really makes it clear how he was basically conditioned & coded to be that way—“made” to be that way.

I want the downfalls of being emotionless to be acknowledged. How is it easy to take advantage of him or hurt him because he isn’t capable of caring all that too much about what others do or say to him.

Like, Nightmare was able to choke him until he fell unconscious and Killer didn’t even react much to being choked, and never seem the slightest bit upset at Nightmare for doing it.

Nightmare threatens to kill him, literally points a tentacle at his soul, and he just says “oh. Cool.”

People have asked him to “please die and never come back,” and all he said was “ok.”

I want to see how it effects his relationships, and how he handles them without being fully capable of caring about the other person the same way they might care about him.

I want the little mask—the facade—Stage 2 puts up to be taken down & see how people react to it. Some people might be unsettled, maybe even feel like he tricked them by masking.

And like, I want his emotionlessness to be acknowledged in the context of romantic relationships. I feel people forget about it or rush straight to Stage 1 in order to get their ships, but it’s not gonna be that easy to get his soul into Stage 1.

And if you start trying to force stage 2 to feel, he’ll see that behavior as intrusive—an attempt to control him—he’ll likely react similar to how he reacted towards Swap, when he tried to do the same.

Like, emotionless people can still be in relationships; even if it’s harder and has some extra challenges. Especially since Killer is canonically a romantic dude.

Not to mention how, when he’s in Stage 1, he seems to cling to the emotionlessness as a coping mechanism.

Not to mention, he isn’t completely emotionless. He’s able to feel some things like anger, annoyance, boredom, and fondness—or as he calls it, “like.”

Whenever he runs into something that reminds him of the past, that little eyelight glows in his right eye socket and he feels something..but he doesn’t know what and just ends up feeling uncomfortable. Unsafe. Unsettled. And then tries to avoid it.

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Killer calls other AUs of Papyrus “Bro.” He called the Papyrus AU he was terrorizing in the Stage 4 comic “bro,” and he did the same to Swap Papyrus in the Killer vs Swap comics to the point that Stretch has to tell him that he isn’t Killer’s “bro.”

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It isn’t a requirement to follow Killer!Sans’ canon, because—as his creator has said— at the end of the day, he’s just a “silly AU” and Rahafwabas just wants people to have fun with her character.

Although Rahafwabas isn’t working on Killer anymore, he is free for fandom use.

The only limits Rahafwbas gave was not to do anything with Killer that might harm other creators. And of course, no incest or pedophilia.

You can also sell merch of Killer, just don’t use the drawings Rahafwabas has drawn of him.