Chapter Text
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Dr. RAYNOR, Christina A.
Patient: Sgt. BARNES, James B. — DOB 03/10/1917
Session 6
Incoming number: (929) 746-0646 [cell phone registered to James B. Barnes]
Outgoing number: (212) 925-8945 [cell phone registered to Dr. Christina A. Raynor]
3:06 PM EDT
April 2, 2024
Transcript of recording as follows:
DR. CHRISTINA RAYNOR: Hello?
SGT. JAMES BARNES: Uh, hi, Doc.
RAYNOR: James! It’s good to hear from you.
BARNES: Um, is this a bad time? Can I, uh, talk to you? Professionally?
RAYNOR: I sort of figured that’s why you were calling, yes.
BARNES: Okay. I don’t really know how the billing is going to work since Walker cancelled our sessions, but if it’s not covered anymore I can just pay out of pocket, just—
RAYNOR: Relax, I told you that you can call me anytime. I’m just finishing lunch. As for billing, you’re still registered as my patient, even if we aren’t having regular sessions right now, and I believe your therapy is still covered by the government. Your appointments just aren’t legally required anymore. And my receptionist will sort out the billing if there’s any problem, she’s very good.
BARNES: Okay. So… this is okay? Talking right now?
RAYNOR: Yes, this is fine. Not that I’m not happy to chit-chat, but I take it there’s a reason you’re calling?
BARNES: I don’t, I don’t really know where to start.
RAYNOR: Okay, well, where are you right now? What’s John got you doing?
BARNES: Uh… God, you’re not gonna like this.
RAYNOR: Tell me.
BARNES: I’m in Madripoor, actually.
RAYNOR: Madri — that's the other side of the world! What time zone are you even in? Is John with you?
BARNES: Uh, it’s about 2 AM here, and he is really, really not. [Pause] It’s kind of a long story. Someone’s making super soldiers again, and Sam and I and — uh, another guy, we’re trying to track them down.
RAYNOR: Okay, well, my first question is, are you safe right now?
BARNES: I mean, what does that even mean—
RAYNOR: [Sighs] Are you in physical danger?
BARNES: No. Well, not at the moment.
RAYNOR: Okay, and are you somewhere you can speak candidly without being overheard?
BARNES: Yeah. I mean, I think so. If I know CIA types, Sharon’s probably got her guest rooms bugged. But it’s probably as private as I’m gonna get.
RAYNOR: Okay. So it sounds like you’re at a friend’s house in Madripoor?
BARNES: Uh, something like that, yeah. [Pause] Well, she was more of Steve’s friend. Girlfriend? She had to leave the country after the whole Sokovia Accords shitshow. She actually sells stolen art on the black market now, which, believe me, was kind of a curveball.
RAYNOR: Wow, uh, okay. Putting that whole can of worms aside, tell me what’s going on with you. You sound… shaken. Are you all right?
BARNES: [Pause] Am I—? Ha. Honestly, Doc, I... kind of have no idea how I am.
RAYNOR: Well, I’m guessing you wouldn’t be calling me in the middle of the night from halfway around the world if everything was peachy. Did something happen?
[Silence — eight seconds.]
BARNES: I… I don’t know where to begin.
RAYNOR: Start with something small.
BARNES: I — well, I got into a fight in a bar and almost killed a guy. A… few guys, actually.
RAYNOR: I said small, James!
BARNES: Yeah, um. In the grand scope of things, that is actually kind of small. There’s kind of… well, there’s a little more to the story.
RAYNOR: Oh, sweet Jesus. All right. Okay. I’m putting some coffee on, and you are going to tell me exactly what happened. [Quietly] I leave you alone for one goddamn week...
BARNES: [Sighs] Okay. Well, you ever hear about a guy named Zemo, Helmut Zemo?
RAYNOR: Please, I studied your file and personal history for three weeks straight after I was selected to work with you. Yes, I am unfortunately familiar with Baron Zemo and your history with him.
BARNES: Yeah, well, uh... he’s here.
RAYNOR: He’s what? I thought he was in prison!
BARNES: Um, yeah, about that...
RAYNOR: Jesus Christ, James—
BARNES: He’s… actually, he’s the third guy I mentioned. Working with me. And Sam. To track down the serum. He really doesn’t like super soldiers, so.
[Silence — six seconds.]
BARNES: Doc? Are you still there?
RAYNOR: Oh yes, believe me, James, I am here. [Pause] So. Why do I have the feeling that what you’ve told me so far is actually just the tip of the shit-iceberg?
BARNES: You’ve sure got a way with words, Doc.
RAYNOR: So I have been told. Tell me what’s going on, now.
BARNES: [inaudible]
RAYNOR: Come on, Barnes, I don’t have time for you to goddamn mumble at me.
BARNES: I kind of… well, to find out where the serum’s coming from, we had to get an audience with a local crime boss. And that wasn’t gonna happen if we didn’t have some… social pull. So we went in disguise. Zemo went as himself, but Sam had to dress up as some local fashion plate or something, and I… well—
RAYNOR: Please do not tell me what I think you are about to tell me.
BARNES: I had to, Doc. I wasn’t getting into the place otherwise. People know my face, I didn’t have any other—
RAYNOR: Are you seriously about to tell me that you’ve been — what, pretending like you’re the Winter Soldier again? In Madripoor, of all places?
BARNES: Y-yes, well, yeah.
[Silence — five seconds.]
BARNES: I know you’re not happy with me right now, but I’m going somewhere with this story, and it’s important, okay? [Quietly] Look, I can’t talk to anyone else about this.
RAYNOR: I honestly don’t even know what to say to you right now. [Pause] So. You walked into a bar, in Madripoor, with Baron Zemo and Sam Wilson. Please, James, I am dying to know, how exactly did that lead to you almost killing a bunch of people?
BARNES: [Quietly] Zemo told me to do it.
RAYNOR: Zemo... told you to do it.
BARNES: [Pause] Yeah.
RAYNOR: And you listened to him.
BARNES: [Quietly] Yeah.
RAYNOR: [Pause] James, I’m gonna need to put you on mute for a second.
[Silence — twenty-nine seconds.]
RAYNOR: Okay. I’m back. I’m good. I’m calm. So. Let me summarize what I’ve heard so far, just to make sure I understand this correctly—
BARNES: [Quietly] Oh, here we go—
RAYNOR: You dressed up as the Winter Soldier and beat the bajeezus out of more than a few civilians in a Madripoor bar while willingly acting under the command of someone who once hijacked your brain so he could break up the goddamn Avengers, successfully I might add, and you then walked into some crime boss’ lair while pretending to be enslaved by this man, who has also escaped from prison, where he was being kept for blowing up the UN and murdering the King of Wakanda and framing you for it. Oh, and you’re now being harboured by another fugitive who — let me just check my notes — makes a living trafficking stolen paintings. And that was all just tonight. Have I got all of that straight? Did I miss anything? Okay. Okay. [Pause] Okay, okay, okay—
BARNES: God, I knew you weren’t gonna take this well.
RAYNOR: My job, James, is to make sure you’re all right. And right now it is taking a lot of effort to focus on doing that, instead of on how much I’d like to rip a whole strip off your ass right now because of how, how bat-fuckingly insane this whole idea was, start to finish! I mean, Jesus, you’ve really outdone yourself this time—
BARNES: I know, I know this was all a bad idea, but—
RAYNOR: Do you, though? Do you have any idea how much you could lose as a result of what you’ve done? How much you may have already lost? What if someone saw you all dressed up as the Winter Soldier again, or recorded you attacking civilians in that bar? What if your actions, your little stunt playing like you’re Zemo’s personal pitbull, what if that got back to the government? The same people who I keep telling, “Oh, he’s fine, he’s no threat to anyone but himself”?
BARNES: Oh, so you have been reporting on me!
RAYNOR: Of course I have! You’re not stupid, James, you just enjoy acting like it.
BARNES: [Pause] Hang on, you think I’m a threat to myself? Is that what you’ve been going around telling people?
RAYNOR: First of all, in our very first session you told me you want to kill yourself. Don’t bullshit me.
BARNES: Okay, that’s… fair, actually.
RAYNOR: And of course I haven’t been “going around telling people”. I’ve been making discreet, classified reports. As you were well aware.
BARNES: Come on, go easy on me, Doc. I didn’t call you just to get yelled at. I’m… [Quietly] I don’t think I’m doing so good.
RAYNOR: [Sighs] I sort of gathered that. This is just... a lot to take in.
BARNES: Yeah, well, believe it or not, this is still just kind of the lead-up.
RAYNOR: Well, I’m listening. I might need some blood pressure medication by the end of this phone call, but James, I really am listening, and I am here for you. Okay?
BARNES: Thanks, Doc.
RAYNOR: So. Tell me what it is that you actually wanted to talk about.
BARNES: [Sighs] Zemo was doing the talking. He got us into the place. Led us in. The woman we were there to see, she was… really interested in me, right off the bat. She knew who I was, or I guess who she thought I was. And she had some information we needed. So. He proposed a trade.
RAYNOR: Oh, no. No, tell me he didn’t—
BARNES: Don’t worry, no, nothing happened. But Zemo sort of... offered me to her. Nothing happened, Doc, she didn't even get to lay a finger on me. She wound up dead about two minutes later, actually. Which was not any of our faults, by the way.
RAYNOR: Jesus, the life you lead. [Pause] You said this woman was... interested in you. So when you say Zemo "offered" you to her, what exactly do you mean?
BARNES: I — I don’t think I know what you mean.
RAYNOR: Yes, you do, you absolutely do know what I’m asking. What was the nature of this trade?
BARNES: Just something like, “You give us the information, I’ll give him to you and you’ll be able to make him do whatever you want.”
RAYNOR: I see. So there was an implication that you would be expected to… what? [Pause] Fine, I'll be blunt. Was there any sexual implication to this trade, James?
BARNES: I don’t know. [Pause] Maybe. I don’t know.
[Silence — six seconds.]
RAYNOR: James, I’m trying to be delicate here, because I know this is a very sensitive subject. But... you realize I have read and studied your file fully. Including all available reports from your time with HYDRA.
BARNES: What’s that supposed to mean?
RAYNOR: It means that I am aware that your… choices have not always been your own when it comes to your sexual life.
BARNES: You’ve — what? There are reports about—? Oh God. Okay, no, no, I am not talking about this. Not with you, not with anyone, okay? Fuck. For fuck’s sake.
RAYNOR: You weren’t aware of the—?
BARNES: No! No, I was not aware! Jesus Christ. Who has these reports? Where did you get them?
RAYNOR: They’re highly classified, James. And they weren’t part of the Black Widow Leak. I was only given access to them when I signed on as your therapist, after about a dozen levels of personal background checks and confidentiality agreements. All right?
BARNES: No. No, not fucking all right! Fuck’s sake. Were you ever gonna tell me about this?
RAYNOR: I was waiting until the subject came up naturally. Which, I guess, it has. [Quietly] I’m sorry. I realize you’re upset with me—
BARNES: Stop. I’m done. I don’t wanna talk about this.
RAYNOR: Okay. Okay. [Pause] So, let’s pull back a little bit and refocus. So, there you are in Madripoor, and Zemo tells this woman that he'll give you to her in exchange for information. Where’s Sam in all of this? While all this was happening, what was he doing, just standing around twiddling his thumbs?
BARNES: Sam wasn’t a real big fan of any of it. But it’s not like he had a choice. Don’t take it out on him, okay? He was just going along with my dumb ass. And my dumb ass was going along with Zemo’s even dumber ass.
RAYNOR: And you and Sam were both in disguise, you said. So I assume that going along with all of this, letting Zemo call the shots and not putting a stop to this, was part of the role Sam was playing too.
BARNES: It was for the mission. It was the only way we were getting that intel.
RAYNOR: So if I'm reading this correctly, in this situation Mr. Zemo had almost complete power over you again — maybe not with the control words, but power nonetheless. Power to make you act like the Winter Soldier, to make you do whatever he wanted, even to sell you, and you couldn’t stop him without ruining your mission. And your only ally in the situation wasn’t going to do anything about it either. [Pause] How did that make you feel?
BARNES: [Scoffs] Which part of it?
RAYNOR: Whichever part it is that’s making you call me from a couple of damn oceans away, James. How did it make you feel? Helpless? Angry? Betrayed? Tell me what’s going on. Talk to me. There's something else going on, isn't there? Why did you call me tonight?
[Silence — ten seconds.]
RAYNOR: James?
BARNES: [Quietly] I liked it.
RAYNOR: What?
BARNES: I liked it, Doc. I liked being told what to do. [Pause] Oh my God. I think I’m really fucked up.
RAYNOR: James, are… are you crying?
BARNES: It felt so good. It felt so good.
RAYNOR: Oh, James. Okay. Okay.
BARNES: I thought they fixed me. They said I wasn’t… but I liked it, why did I like it?
RAYNOR: Hold on. Hold on, okay? Let's think this over. Did you like being sold for information? Trafficked? When Zemo offered you to this woman, did you have any positive feelings about being treated that way, or about what might happen to you in her hands?
BARNES: No! No, Jesus, of course not.
RAYNOR: But some part of this experience felt good to you. So, let’s examine that. What was it that felt good?
BARNES: The bar. Someone laid a hand on Zemo and he just said, “Attack.” So... I did. Didn’t hesitate, didn’t think twice, even though I wanted to fucking kill him for making me. It felt so good, like I was… like I was doing what I’d been made for. But it was more than that. It was like I’d been carrying something heavy around for years and finally got to put it down. And I hadn’t even realized I was carrying it.
RAYNOR: So it felt good for you to relinquish control for a little while. To let someone else be responsible for your actions. That's a very powerful feeling, isn't it? Where do you think that comes from?
BARNES: I don't know. It's been so hard. So fucking hard. Trying to just live without someone telling me what to do. I... I know it's not normal. I can't explain it. Oh my God.
RAYNOR: It's all right, James. Breathe.
BARNES: [Quietly] Why — why am I like this, Doc?
RAYNOR: My professional opinion? [Sighs] You were tortured, conditioned, for years. I'm sorry to speak of it so bluntly, but you were. Damage was deliberately and repeatedly inflicted on some very important parts of your brain. And between that and the other kinds of abuse and behavioural conditioning, you experienced a, a, a total personality breakdown. From which you have recovered beautifully, James, I have to say.
BARNES: If I've recovered so goddamn well, then why does it...
RAYNOR: Why does it still feel good to be told what to do? [Pause] Well, think about it. You spent years being punished in the most brutal, inhumane ways for any kind of infraction — that is to say, anytime you resisted orders or acted under your own initiative. And you were rewarded, if I can call it that, for doing what you were told.
BARNES: But I'm not there anymore. It's been years since anyone...
RAYNOR: Yes, but our bodies, our brains, take a little longer to figure things out. That's what trauma recovery is all about. That's what I was telling you about, about PTSD, about how trauma leaves a sort of an imprint on our brains that makes us think we're still there. That those things are still happening. [Pause] You know, James, consciously, that you're not under HYDRA's control anymore. But even though you've escaped, your trauma was so severe and occurred for so long that now, even years later, your brain is still trying to figure out that you won't be punished for misbehaving. That you won't be rewarded for following orders. You were programmed to believe that you would be. Systematically programmed, to the point where maybe it's even Pavlovian. You associate obeying orders with feeling good, or at least with not being hurt.
BARNES: Okay, so, what do I do? [Sniffles] Can you... can you fix me?
RAYNOR: Well, you're doing a really good job of fixing yourself, actually. There's no quick fix for trauma. It just takes time. And patience.
BARNES: Well. Fuck.
RAYNOR: So say we all. [Pause] Oh, James.
BARNES: I was fine during the whole thing with Zemo. I was fine. I don’t know why I’m falling apart now.
RAYNOR: It's all right. You're safe. Take a minute to just breathe now, all right? You're safe, you're in control, it's just you and me.
BARNES: Well, maybe Sharon too, if she's listening in.
RAYNOR: If so, you need better friends.
BARNES: Ha, yeah, maybe.
[Silence — twenty-five seconds.]
RAYNOR: How are things now? It sounds like your breathing is a little steadier.
BARNES: Yeah, I'm good. Sorry. [Clears throat]
RAYNOR: You did really good tonight. I know we touched on some things that are really hard for you, including maybe some things you're not ready to talk about—
BARNES: Stop. Just... I can't go there.
RAYNOR: Okay. But this is why therapy is important, James. You can’t just walk this stuff off. I know that’s how men in the 1940s did things, but these days we know that just squishing your feelings down is not healthy. Especially not with the kinds of things you’ve been through. [Pause] Look, I know John cancelled the court order for our appointments going forward, but I’d like to continue talking to you on a regular basis, if you’re comfortable with that.
BARNES: Is that allowed?
RAYNOR: By who? Of course it’s allowed. Like I said before, it’s just not required anymore. [Pause] Actually, John’s just saved me a lot of paperwork. I won’t have to write formal reports on our sessions anymore.
BARNES: First good thing he’s done.
RAYNOR: Now, that’s not true. John’s an old colleague of mine and I can tell you, he’s a very good man.
BARNES: If you say so. Guy gives me the creeps, Doc. He’s a few stars short of the flag, you know what I mean?
RAYNOR: Well, I guess you’re entitled to your opinion. [Pause] Speaking of people who give you the creeps, I think you should distance yourself from Mr. Zemo as quickly as possible. Not only does he belong back in prison, but... well, given your history with him controlling you before, given what happened tonight and your reaction to his orders—
BARNES: Yeah, well, I don't think I have much of a choice about working with him at the moment. Not until the mission's done.
RAYNOR: Well, as your therapist, I am officially telling you that I want you far away from him. Like, a couple of continents away. And I'd also like you to spend some time over the next couple of days thinking about that feeling of relinquishing control, and why it feels good, and how you might be able to overcome that, or even how you might work it into your regular life in a healthy way. [Pause] How are you feeling now?
BARNES: I don’t know. Sort of empty. [Pause] I'm real sorry about all of this. God, I'm a fucking mess right now. I don't usually...
RAYNOR: I know you don't. It means a lot that you called me, James. And that you were able to tell me about some of the things you're feeling. I'm very glad you did. Even if I do still sort of want to hit you upside the head.
BARNES: [Laughs] Get in line.
RAYNOR: Speaking of people I want to hit upside the head, where’s Sam right now?
BARNES: I think he’s in his guest room down the hall. [Pause] If you want to talk to him, I mean, I guess — but I’d kind of appreciate if maybe this could stay between—
RAYNOR: What? No, no, our conversations are confidential. Nothing you tell me will ever go to Sam without your consent. Ever. But if he's awake, I think you should go talk to him. Maybe even if he's not awake. I don’t think you should be alone right now.
BARNES: Okay.
RAYNOR: Okay. And then you should probably try to get some sleep, all right?
BARNES: Yeah, I guess. [Pause] Also, Sharon, if you’re listening to any of this, fuck you.
RAYNOR: [Laughs] Okay, James. Text me tomorrow and let’s set up a time for our next appointment, all right? I know you're travelling right now, so we can do a Zoom or FaceTime appointment if you need to. Or we can just talk over the phone again like this.
BARNES: Okay. Night, Doc. And, um. Thanks. For all of this.
RAYNOR: It was my pleasure. Goodnight, James.
End of transcript.
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